NHS: Independent Investigation

Statement

The following Statement was made in the House of Commons on Thursday 12 September.

“With permission, I would like to make a Statement on Lord Darzi’s investigation into the NHS.

Unlike the last holders of this office, this Government will be honest about the problems the NHS faces and serious about fixing them. That is why I asked Lord Darzi, an eminent cancer surgeon who served both Labour and Conservative-led Governments with distinction, to conduct an independent investigation into the state of our national health service. I am sure the whole House will want to join me in thanking him for producing this expert, comprehensive report, a copy of which I have placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

I told Lord Darzi that we wanted hard truths, warts and all. His findings are raw, honest and breathtaking. He says:

‘Although I have worked in the NHS for more than 30 years, I have been shocked by what I have found’.

He has uncovered an enormous charge sheet, too long to list in this Statement, so these are just a few: the NHS has not been able to meet its promises to treat patients on time for almost a decade; patients have never been more dissatisfied with the service they receive; waiting lists for mental health and community services have surged; 50 years of progress on cardiovascular disease is going into reverse; and cancer is more likely to be a death sentence for NHS patients than for patients in other countries. It is not just the sickness in the NHS that concerns Lord Darzi, but sickness in society. Children are sicker today than a decade ago and adults are falling into ill health earlier in life. That is piling pressure on to the NHS and holding back our economy.

Those are some of the symptoms; the report is equally damning on the causes. First, a decade of underinvestment left the NHS 15 years behind the private sector on technology, with fewer diagnostic scanners per patient than almost every comparable country, including Belgium, Italy and Greece, and in 2024 mental health patients are treated in Victorian buildings with cockroach and mouse infestations, where 17 men are forced to share two showers.

Secondly, there was the disastrous 2012 top-down reorganisation overseen by Lord Lansley. Lord Darzi’s assessment is damning:

‘A calamity without international precedent…it took a “scorched earth” approach to health reform’.

‘By 2015 … ministers were … putting in place “workarounds and sticking plasters” to bypass the legislation’.

‘Rather than liberating the NHS, as promised, the Health and Social Care Act 2012 imprisoned more than a million NHS staff in a broken system for the best part of a decade’.

‘the effects … are still felt to this day’.

Just imagine if all the time, effort and billions of pounds wasted on dissolving and reconstituting management structures had instead been invested in services for patients—clearly, the NHS would not be in the mess it finds itself in today.

Thirdly, there was coronavirus. Everyone can see the lasting damage caused by the pandemic, but until now we did not know that the pandemic hit the NHS harder than any other comparable healthcare system in the world. The NHS cancelled far more operations and routine care than anywhere else. As Lord Darzi writes:

‘The pandemic’s impact was magnified because the NHS had been seriously weakened in the decade preceding its onset’.

In other words, it is not just that the Conservatives did not fix the roof while the sun was shining; they doused the house in petrol and left the gas on, and Covid just lit the match. That is why waiting lists have ballooned to 7.6 million today. If I were an Opposition Member, I would not complain about the diagnosis. I would take responsibility.

Fourthly—this sits firmly at Opposition Members’ door, so they should sit and listen—there was the failure to reform. From 2019 onwards, the previous Government oversaw a 17% increase in the number of staff working in hospitals. Did it lead to better outcomes for patients? No. At great expense to the taxpayer, the NHS has instead seen a huge fall in productivity. We paid more but got less—a deplorable waste of resources when so many parts of our health and care services were crying out for investment. As Lord Darzi has put it:

‘British Airways wouldn’t train more pilots without buying more planes’.

Doctors and nurses are wasting their time trying to find beds for their patients and dealing with outdated IT when they ought to be treating patients.

Too many people end up in hospital because they cannot get the help that they need from a pharmacy, a GP or social care. The effective reforms of the last Labour Government, which drove better performance and better care for patients, have mostly been undone, and that is why patients cannot get a GP appointment, an operation or even an ambulance when they need one today. That is what the Conservatives did to take the NHS from the shortest waiting times and highest patient satisfaction in history to the broken NHS that we see today.

Lord Darzi has given his diagnosis. Now it is over to us to write the prescription, and we have three choices. The first is to continue the Conservatives’ neglect, and allow the NHS to collapse. That is the path on which they set the NHS, and the path that it is on today. Or we could—as some of my critics on the left demand—pour ever-increasing amounts of money in without reform, wasting money that is not there and that working people cannot afford to pay. That would be wasteful and irresponsible, so we will not take that path. This Government are making a different choice: we choose recovery and reform. We are taking action today to deal with the immediate crisis by hiring 1,000 GPs whom the Conservatives had left without a job while patients were going without an appointment, and agreeing an offer to end the strikes that they allowed to cripple our health service.

At the same time, we will introduce the fundamental reforms needed to secure the future of our NHS. Earlier today, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister confirmed that the Government would publish a 10-year plan for change and modernisation, on the foundation of Lord Darzi’s report. Our plan will deliver the three big shifts needed to make our NHS fit for the future. The first is from analogue to digital, giving patients proper choice and control over their own healthcare, and finally realising the untapped potential of the NHS app. There will be fully digital patient records so that your surgeon can see the notes that your GP writes. By marrying our country’s leading scientific minds with the care of more than 1.5 million NHS staff, we will put NHS patients at the front of the queue for cutting-edge medicines and treatments that we can only imagine today.

Secondly, there is the shift from hospital to community, turning our NHS into a neighbourhood as much as a national health service so that patients can get their tests and scans on their high streets and be cared for from the comfort of their own homes. That means bringing back the family doctor and building a national care service that can be there for us when we need it, able to meet the challenges of this century.

Thirdly, there is the shift from sickness to prevention, which means taking the decisions that the Conservatives ducked to give our children a healthy, happy start in life. It means stopping the targeting of junk food ads at children, banning energy drinks for under-16s, reforming the NHS to catch illness earlier—starting by offering health checks in workplaces and on smartphones— and delivering the Tobacco and Vapes Bill that the Conservatives failed to pass, to tackle one of society’s biggest killers.

Lord Darzi’s diagnosis is that the NHS is in a ‘critical condition’—unless we perform major surgery, the patient will die—but he also finds that

‘its vital signs are strong’:

an extraordinary depth of clinical talent, and a shared determination to improve care for patients. This is a public service, free at the point of use, so that whenever we fall ill we never have to worry about the bill. The NHS is broken, but it is not beaten. Every person I have met in the NHS during my first two months as Health and Social Care Secretary is up for the challenge. It will take time, but this party—the party that created the NHS—has turned the NHS around before, and we will do it again. I commend this Statement to the House”.

16:12:00

My Lords, I am glad we are having this debate on the report by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, even if the tone set by the Statement—which I am sure noble Lords have read—is, as far as I am concerned, rather regrettable. It is regrettable because the noble Lord, as one would expect of that most distinguished man, has produced a thoughtful and carefully argued diagnosis and set of prescriptions for the NHS. It would have been better to treat those findings on their own terms rather than as an excuse for a highly charged political rant. Having said that, I hope that, in this House at least, we can maintain debate on a rational and civilised level. There are indeed problems in the health service that are there for all to see and others that are less immediately visible. These problems are real and indeed require sustained remedial effort. The noble Lord, Lord Darzi, attributes them to a mixture of causes, one being inadequate central government funding. I do not expect the noble Lord to be an apologist for the previous Government, but it would have been nice if he had acknowledged more fully that, despite so-called austerity, health service funding rose in real terms in every year since 2010 and in the last five years by nearly 3% in real terms per annum. The problem, as Sir John Bell has pointed out, is not a lack of money: it is that too much of the money has been sucked, suboptimally, into acute care settings and not enough into the community. The noble Lord goes on to say that very thing. But let no one conclude from that that community funding has been neglected. The last Government oversaw the opening of 160 community diagnostic centres. As my right honourable friend said in the other place, this is the largest central cash investment in MRI and CT scanning capacity in the history of the NHS. Is there more to be done? Yes—but the results are there and proving their worth. The NHS is currently treating 25% more people than it did in 2010. It is delivering tens of millions more out-patient appointments, diagnostic tests and procedures than it did when the coalition Government came into office. Some of the community services are being delivered by staff employed by acute trusts—the statistics tend to hide those numbers. Yes, we can talk about the need for greater productivity, but this progress—it is indeed progress—is all down to the efforts of the dedicated clinical staff across the health service on whom we all rely, and who are more in number than at any time in the service’s history. Please do not criticise the last Government for focusing on the numbers. The imperative of planning ahead to train the right number of staff for the right care settings was amply fulfilled in the last Government’s workforce plan—a publication heralded by the NHS chief executive as “one of the most seminal moments” in the NHS’s history. Can the Minister nevertheless say, despite the fact that the report is not mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, whether the Government will embrace the workforce plan and take it forward as the NHS clearly wants and needs? Can she also say whether the Government will adopt the productivity plan announced in the last Government’s Spring Budget? That plan—again, unaccountably not mentioned in the report—would deliver the “tilt towards technology” that the noble Lord rightly advocates, with a big productivity gain to boot. I said that the noble Lord, Lord Darzi’s report was carefully argued, but not all of it is well argued. I cannot allow his colourful statements about the 2012 Health and Social Care Act to go unchallenged. To attribute the NHS’s current difficulties and challenges in large part to that Act is, frankly, ridiculous. What that Act did was to complete the process that the noble Lord himself started, which was to ingrain quality into the commissioning and delivery of healthcare based on clearly defined standards and outcomes, meaning that providers would be competing with each other based on the quality of care and treatment that they delivered to patients. The noble Lord, Lord Darzi, now says that we need to move away from the whole idea of competition, but I suspect he has misled himself, because he goes on to say: “The framework of national standards … incentives and earned autonomy … needs to be reinvigorated”, along with patient choice. What is that framework if it is not a framework of healthy competition between providers based on quality? Therefore, what role does the Minister see for competition alongside collaboration —I do not think the two are mutually exclusive—in driving up the quality of NHS care? I have a few final questions. We are told that a 10-year plan will be produced based on the findings of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi. Whose plan will that be? Will it be the Government’s plan, and if so, how will the Government avoid what might look like a prescriptive top-down set of instructions to the health service? Does the Minister think it important that the NHS takes ownership of the plan and, if so, how will that be achieved? In essence, the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, believes that we need to get from point A to point B—in other words, from acute settings to community settings; from tired old premises to brand new ones; et cetera. Does the Minister agree that we cannot transition from point A without first finding the money to create a functioning point B? In other words, will she and her fellow Ministers urge the Chancellor to commit to the capital expenditure necessary to achieve that? Lastly, I quote the noble Lord, Lord Darzi: “The vast array of good practice that already exists in the health service should be the starting point for the plan to reform it”. Does the Minister agree with that and, if so, how does she reconcile those sentiments with the Government’s mantra—which is so discouraging to the men and women of the health service—that the NHS is “broken”?

My Lords, I thank the Minister for bringing the Statement to the House. You do not have to be a mastermind to realise that the NHS is straining at its seams. It is only down to the great work of the many thousands of people who work in the NHS that millions of people get great care, even though some fall between the cracks. The Darzi report is a very good medical history and it gives a diagnosis, but we all know that the treatment plan is going to be the important point if we are to deal with a reformed, new and productive NHS. There are some welcome themes in the report that are not new. Those who know the previous Darzi report will see have seen some of them before: prevention; moving resources from hospital care to primary and community care; dealing with the wider determinants of health; improvements in and parity for mental health; and a bigger role for public health. I understand that the Minister will answer many questions by saying that we need to wait for the 10-year treatment plan, and probably the Budget, before such specific questions can be answered, but I have a few general questions for the Minister, to get at least a sense of the direction that the Government wish to take. Is it the Government’s intention to restore the public health grant back its 2014 levels? Are there any general views about looking at changing the structure of public health, nationally or locally? On capital, what is the Government’s thinking about the general theme of allocation to hospital and non-hospital services, and how will this be managed and monitored? On data, what is the Government’s thinking on the workforce plan, particularly when there is a huge imbalance when it comes to digital and data between the private sector and skills within the NHS? That is not to say that there are not some good skills within the NHS, but there is clearly an imbalance. Welcome as it is that the report talks about moving resources from hospital to non-hospital settings, I was a manager in the health service in the early 1990s and I know that this has been said since at least the 1970s. What are the Government going to do to be able to move resources from sunk costs in the acute sector into other sectors? What mechanisms will be put in place? How will this be monitored? More importantly, who will be held accountable for making sure that it actually happens? How will the new neighbourhood approach affect the existing workforce plan? If a new health service is anticipated, what will the effect be on the workforce plan and the implications for capital allocation? We all want to see a productive and effective healthcare system that improves peoples’ health and independence, but that cannot be brought about if we do not have a strong, effective, well-funded social care system. I do not understand why social care has been kicked down to the next Parliament, or how we are going to solve the health and well-being of the population without that being done. If the major reforms of social care are in the next Parliament, what steps are the Government going to take in this Parliament to deal with the social care crisis? I look forward to the Minister’s answers, but, more importantly, to the 10-year treatment plan’s arrival in the next few months.

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, for their opening observations. I will seek to deal with as many of them as I can; I am sure a number will be iterated in the course of the Back-Bench contributions. I start by expressing gratitude to the noble Lord, Lord Darzi—my noble friend, if I can call him that—for what I regard as an open, honest and thorough review. He is known as a man of great service, not just to your Lordships’ House but to the National Health Service. He has served Labour and Conservative Governments with distinction. As noble Lords will be aware, he is an eminent cancer surgeon who has driven innovation and speaks up for staff and patients. It is not surprising to me that the Secretary of State asked him to conduct this review, tasking him to provide what we might refer to as hard truths, warts and all. I realise that when one asks for that it can be uncomfortable, but I hope that we in your Lordships’ House can sit with discomfort in order to find a way forward for the National Health Service. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, referred to the terminology that the NHS is “broken”. I understand that that is uncomfortable to hear, but when I speak to NHS staff they recognise that terminology. We are at great pains to say that we are not being critical of NHS staff, but unless we start in an honest and open fashion we will not be able to—as the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, referred to—restore the trust that is necessary. As the Secretary of State said in the other place, this Government have resolved to be honest about the problems faced and serious about fixing them. That is why he commissioned this independent investigation. I very much hope that noble Lords can be of assistance in finding the way forward, because we now have a diagnosis on which we can consult and then move on to the necessary prescription to improve the health of our National Health Service. The noble Lord, Lord Scriven, referred to the 10-year plan. I am glad that he looks forward to it—as do I—but how will we get there? We now have a very clear explanation of where we are. It is evidenced and has widely involved many people and organisations. It should therefore be regarded with great respect, and I think it largely has been. However, the next stage for the 10-year plan will be to have what will be the biggest consultation we have ever had in this country on the National Health Service. It will involve patients, staff, parliamentarians, stakeholders—all those who have a vested and informed interest in it. That will lead us to the 10-year plan. On the question about this being top-down, this is very much a bottom-up exercise, with the Government’s commitment underlying it. It is important to say that the 10-year plan does not mean that we will wait 10 years for everything. We will identify those areas in which we can make swifter progress and we can then look beyond. The fact is —this came out many times in the report from the noble Lord, Lord Darzi—that this has been a long time in the making and to turn it around will not be quick. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, acknowledged that there were problems in the NHS. I am grateful for that and for his reference to the need for change. I also listened closely to his reference to what had been done under the previous Government. Facts are facts, but what matters is output. As we are discussing today, whatever the previous investment and previous actions, some of which were very much to be commended, the output has not delivered the results we need. That is why we have the report by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi. On the issue of dedicated staff, the staff team to whom I pay tribute goes way beyond clinical staff, important as they are, and includes the cleaners, porters and administrators. Noble Lords will recall that, when the workforce plan was published, we said that this was a useful step forward. Our job now, as a new Government, as the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, said, is to adapt the plan to ensure that it brings in one of the three pillars we will be going for: hospital to community. That will absolutely be our focus. I note that the noble Earl, Lord Howe, does not accept the assessment by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, of the Health and Social Care Act 2012. I see the noble Lord, Lord Lansley, in his place; I am sure he will have a contribution to make. I have to part company with the noble Earl on that point, as the evidence in the review is that the Act did not work in the direction we were seeking to take. On capital expenditure, we find ourselves with a massive backlog of capital works, such that the ability of the NHS to deliver is being held back by the buildings and facilities. We have therefore instructed a review of this, which we will then look to. Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, was generous enough to say that he does not expect me to respond to the detailed questions about funding. However, I can assure him that all these matters are being considered—in other words, how we can best deliver the output and the improvements in health that the report of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, seeks to achieve.

16:32:00

My Lords, if this were a Committee stage, I would have been delighted to engage in a debate with the noble Earl, Lord Howe, who is a class act at presenting a case even though he might not believe in it. He is a lovely man. I would have taken issue with him on the 2012 Act—maybe not all of it, but a significant part of it. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Darzi on his report. It is an honest report about the state of the NHS currently, whatever the genesis of that might be. As this is a Statement, I can only ask a question. One of the areas the report refers to is the need for capital investment. This has been neglected for some time, and without it, we are unlikely to be able to deliver quality care in all the aspects the report seeks. So, what is the Government’s plan for capital investment in the NHS?

I begin by agreeing with the noble Lord, Lord Patel, in his assessment of the noble Earl, Lord Howe, as I am sure your Lordships’ House does. On the issue of capital, the total maintenance backlog stands at £11.6 billion, an increase of nearly 14% on the previous year. As I mentioned in my opening comments, this is holding back the productivity, ability and capacity of the National Health Service. Our financial situation is well documented, but we have asked the department and NHS England to review the health service’s capital requirements, and that includes NHS England’s assessment of long-term estate needs across a range of areas. We will have to establish the position and where we are to go from there, but I assure the noble Lord of the importance of this matter.

My Lords, I should declare an interest as a non-executive member of Whittington Hospital, and indeed as its maternity safeguarding champion. I have huge admiration and regard for the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, with whom I worked when he graced these Benches as a very successful and effective Minister. I agree with his analysis of the Health and Social Care Act 2012; I was opposite the noble Earl, Lord Howe, when we were debating that legislation—for what felt like many years—before it reached the statute book, and I agree that despite the challenges to the NHS, the vital signs remain strong. Page 38 of the report addresses the question of inequality in maternity and neo-natal mortality, which is described. Does the Minister agree that after East Kent, Morecambe Bay and Shrewsbury, we do not need further research into understanding the challenges in our maternity services? What we need is leadership, attention and focus, so that our maternity services can benefit from the proposals in this report and the 10-year plan.

I agree with my noble friend. I am pleased to inform the House that just this week I announced a number of pilot programmes, through which maternity staff will be taught and supported to better identify the signs of a baby in distress in labour, so that action can be taken more quickly, and which will help staff deal with obstetric emergencies during caesarean sections. Such actions help to avoid preventable brain injuries and are right for the baby and the mother. We also need to tackle the issue of the more than £4 billion cost of the lawsuits that have been brought over a number of years. I have seen good examples of teamwork in Bristol and Surrey, to name just two, and there are many things that can be learned. We know what strategies work—one of which is listening to women—but the challenge is, how do we roll out what is successful, including from the pilot programmes? Following the recent report, which showed a devastating situation in maternity and neo-natal care, that is a high priority for this Government.

My Lords, the excellent report of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, refers to the stress our GPs are under and how patients are no longer flowing through the hospitals as they should. One issue is that hospitals are constantly referring patients back to their GPs when they are still on the same treatment pathway. Recently, a member of my family was at a post-op review following a pacemaker operation that had gone wrong. Her heart was still giving her problems, and she was told she had to go back to her GP to start the whole process again. Many patients in hospital clinics are being told to go back to their GP to get a scan or an MRI—which is one of the reasons why they were referred to the hospital. This is not fair on hard-pressed GPs and, above all, patients. Can this practice be stopped?

I am sorry to hear of the circumstance that the noble Baroness raises. I agree with her about the pressure on GPs who, of course, are working harder than ever. We know, not just through the Darzi report but through much evidence, that discharge into the community has to take place at the right time and with the right support, and that is not the case at present. I will certainly take up the specific thing the noble Baroness asks for and look into it in far greater detail, because this is clearly a practice, as she described, that is not supporting patients or GPs but working against them.

A wholly different report could have been written based on the underpinning evidence. To that extent, the report may call itself independent but it was not objective. If the Minister subscribes to some of the hyperbolic criticisms of the 2012 Act, can she then explain how the NHS in Labour-run Wales—where the 2012 Act had no effect whatever—performed worse on almost every measure of performance? She said that output was what matters. Can she therefore confirm that productivity in the NHS rose after 2010, relative to the preceding period, up until the pandemic? Can she actually agree that it is outcomes that matter most? Will she say that the Government will maintain the progress that needs to be made in making the NHS accountable to the NHS outcomes framework that we established a decade ago? Finally, to revert to what my noble friend and the noble Lord, Lord Scriven, rightly asked about, in the last decade the 10-year plan has been something that the NHS owned. There was the five-year forward view in 2014 and the 10-year plan in 2019, and now in 2024 the NHS should own the refresh of the 10-year plan, but I do not think that is going to be the case. Can the Minister explain why the Government are taking that earned autonomy away from the NHS?

I do not recognise the description of taking autonomy away; I appreciate that that is the noble Lord’s opinion. The National Health Service is so key to not just our health and well-being but the economic health of this country. In my opinion, it is something of a backbone of the country. It is right that the Government have made this an absolute priority and have commissioned a very honest report—I hear his criticisms of the report; they are not ones that I share—and that the Government are held accountable. That does not mean taking away autonomy from the NHS. I accept the noble Lord’s point that it is outcomes that matter, and perhaps I should have put that better because by output I mean things not just being done but actually being effective. I thank him for that point. On frameworks and meeting obligations, one of the points made not just in the Darzi report but elsewhere is on how many of the standards are not being met. We will return to a number of the standards to ensure that people can feel that they know what they are going to get and within what timeframe, and that that will be absolutely possible. We are interested only in what works. We are not interested in scoring points; we are interested in improving the health and well-being of the nation, and I hope noble Lords will want to join with that.

My Lords, I say straightaway that I entirely support the concept of an independent inquiry into the National Health Service. Indeed, it was something I advocated to the previous Government —not with notable success. I also pay tribute to the excellent National Health Service treatment and care I received when recovering from a recent heart attack. It was excellent in every way, from the ambulance service right through to the hospital treatment itself. In that context, does the Minister agree that the Government’s description of the National Health Service as “broken” is both unjust to the staff and an altogether false generalisation? It takes the language of the recent election into healthcare, and I would have thought that was one of the things we needed to avoid now.

I am very pleased to see the noble Lord in the rudest of health and to hear of his positive experience. Of course, there are many positive experiences every single day, and the noble Lord is quite right to remind us of that and of the need to thank the whole NHS staff team who make that happen. On the point about the NHS being broken, I understand the noble Lord’s view. However, I think it is important that we lay it bare and say what we have found. Having read the report by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, I find it hard not to conclude that there are fundamental points within the National Health Service that are just not working. Of course there is good practice and there are brilliant outcomes in some areas, but it is not universal and that is what drives us to make that point. I hear what the noble Lord says. However, it is important to be honest, and that is what we have said we will be, uncomfortable though it might be at times.

Does the Minister agree that integration between the different branches of the NHS, or rather a lack of it, is one of the problems? It is particularly a problem for patients. It works best when you cannot see the joins between various branches—when you cannot tell who the community nurse is working for, whether it is the hospital nurse and so on. Those are the things that puzzle patients. In thinking about the workforce, therefore, will the Government look at ways—for example, joint training—in which we can better integrate the staff, so that they work less in professional silos and much more across various branches of the NHS?

Yes, I certainly agree with my noble friend about the need for better integration. Joint training is a very practical example and will be part of how we develop the workforce, because silo working clearly is not working, as we can see in the current state of affairs, particularly if we look at the relationship between the National Health Service and the social care service. It is not seamless, and individuals are suffering for that, so I very much agree with my noble friend.

My Lords, I draw noble Lords’ attention to my registered interests, in particular as chairman of King’s Health Partners and of the King’s Fund. In the report by the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, a picture is clearly painted of what now represents a very serious national challenge in securing the long-term sustainability of our health service and, as the Minister has recognised, the parallel need to consider questions of how we develop a long-term strategy for the provision of social care. On 18 April this year, in a debate in your Lordships’ House initiated by my noble friend Lord Patel on the question of the long-term sustainability of the health and care systems, there was a discussion about how one might achieve consensus—consensus among the public, consensus among the professions and political consensus to ensure that a plan might be adopted which will require very difficult decisions and great courage and commitment over a sustained period of time to deliver the kind of objective about which we all agree. How will His Majesty’s Government go about developing that consensus in addition to developing the plan that must be applied?

This will take us towards the 10-year plan. There will shortly—really shortly—be an announcement as to how the consultation will take place. It will be available to everybody with an interest in and a commitment to the National Health Service, and to those with lived experience, which is extremely important. It will be the biggest consultation that there has ever been on the National Health Service. I believe that is the way to achieve consensus, but you have to start by asking what the diagnosis is. Although I hear differing opinions in some areas of your Lordships’ House about the contribution of the report of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, for me it makes a major contribution. If one does not know where one starts, one cannot end up in the right place. However, I absolutely agree with the noble Lord that consensus is key. We do not have the luxury of time for arguing the case, so this widespread consultation will get us to the right place.

My Lords, the forensic report of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, shone a much-needed spotlight on the deteriorating state of children’s health services and worsening health outcomes for children, particularly the long waiting lists of over a year that some were facing before getting hospital treatment. What plans do the Government have to focus investment on children’s health services, which seem to have fallen behind adult health services, and to develop a children’s health workforce strategy as part of the overall NHS long-term workforce plan?

I agree with the noble Baroness that that is unacceptable. There are just too many children and young people who are not receiving the care that they deserve. We know that waits for services are far too long and our determination is to change that—not least, as I am sure the noble Baroness has seen, given that children are at the heart of our opportunity and health missions, and rightly so. To ensure that every child has a happy and healthy start to life, among other measures we will train more health visitors and digitise the red book of children’s health records, so that parents and children can access the right support. We will be restricting vapes and junk food from being advertised to children, which will assist in the prevention of ill health, and we will ban the sale of high caffeine and energy drinks to under-16s. There will also be specialist mental health support in every school and walk-in mental health hubs in every community. I hope all of those will make a difference.

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of interests as a trustee of the Royal Marsden Cancer Charity. The report of the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, discusses oncology services and life science research, both of which are at risk given NHS England’s planned closure of the paediatric oncology unit at the Royal Marsden in Sutton, cited alongside the Institute of Cancer Research as offering bench-to-bedside research and care. Does the Minister agree that such a closure would be devastating to the provision of paediatric cancer services, to research and to drug trials, and that it would undermine the recommendations of the report, which highlights the need to improve cancer survival rates and bolster our life sciences capability?

I thank the noble Baroness for raising this important question, as she has done before with me. I know she is aware that I cannot comment on the individual case. What I can say is that research, diagnosis and treatment in all these areas, as we have heard from the noble Lord, Lord Darzi, are absolutely crucial to ensure that cancer patients are not being failed. We need to improve cancer survival rates, and we need to ensure that patients wait for no longer than they should. We have to research cancer, diagnose it on time and treat it faster.