Scotland: New Nuclear Power Generation

Question

14:58:00

Asked by

To ask His Majesty’s Government what discussions they plan to have with the Scottish Government regarding the extension of new nuclear power generation to Scotland.

My Lords, Scotland’s policy on new nuclear energy projects is a matter for the Scottish Government. We remain open to discussions with the Scottish Government on nuclear energy’s future in Scotland. In the meantime, we welcome EDF’s recent decision to extend Torness’s operation to March 2030.

My Lords, I agree that we should respect the role of the Scottish Government, but surely now is the time to stop pussyfooting around, when the Scottish Government say that they are quite willing to accept in the future electricity generated by nuclear in England. Given that energy is a reserved area, surely we should look at ways of stopping the blockers in Scotland, as well as in the rest of the United Kingdom. Will the Minister have a look at it?

My Lords, my noble friend knows that on powers relating to nuclear the issue is that, in Scotland, nationally significant infrastructure projects, including nuclear, are broadly reserved. However, Scottish Ministers have devolved executive competence for planning decisions for improving applications to build, operate or modify electricity-generating stations with capacities exceeding 50 megawatts in Scotland. We are not in a position to make a change to that. Scotland has a rich nuclear heritage, and the work being done at Torness is extremely valuable in providing clean energy to Scotland. As I have said already, we very much support EDF’s decision to extend the life of Torness by a couple of years.

The Net Zero, Energy and Climate Change Interministerial Group met on 6 March and the communiqué came out yesterday. It has a section in it about what was discussed, and nuclear power is not mentioned. The interministerial group met in October and March last year, and nuclear power is not mentioned in either of those two communiqués. Can the Minister assure us that nuclear power will be on the agenda of the next meeting of the interministerial group?

My Lords, we are always open to discussing nuclear power in that group, and with the Scottish Government. However, it is very difficult to make progress in view of the current Scottish Government’s position on nuclear. I can say that, on 6 February in the Scottish Parliament, Anas Sarwar, the leader of the Scottish Labour Party, called on John Swinney, the First Minister, to drop his ideological opposition to nuclear power in Scotland.

My Lords, the GMB came out and said that the Scottish economy is losing out to the tune of £1 billion because of the Scottish Government’s ideological indifference to nuclear. Am I right that, last week, the noble and learned Baroness the Advocate-General said that there had been a fundamental reset in the relationship between the UK and Scottish Governments? I ask the Minister if this is not the time to demonstrate that reset. Can we please have a joined-up, holistic strategy for nuclear that does not stop at the Tweed?

My Lords, there has been a reset and we have been in close discussions with the Scottish Government on a number of energy matters, but the fact is that the Scottish Government are opposed to new nuclear development. I agree with the noble Lord—and Anas Sarwar said it too—that the refusal to allow new nuclear power plants is costing Scotland billions in investment and thousands of jobs, which will go to England and Wales instead. I agree with that, but the fact is that we are dealing with the Scottish Government, who, at this stage, are not prepared to go for new nuclear.

My Lords, in view of the difference of opinion on nuclear power in Scotland, demonstrated by both the Minister and the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, will the Minister accept that, in Wales, there is a widespread wish to see the former nuclear power stations of Wylfa and Trawsfynydd being used? That brings together the Labour Government in Cardiff and the Plaid Cymru-run local governments in Anglesey and Gwynedd. Given the strong feeling that this should happen, not least in the context of medical isotopes, can the Government give particular attention to bringing investment to those two sites?

My Lords, the department rejoices in the approach of the Welsh Government, and indeed of the noble Lord. I well understand the potential for new nuclear developments in Wales and think it is a tragedy that the proposals in Wylfa did not go ahead. The noble Lord knows that, in the siting policy currently in play, Wylfa is listed as a site of great potential. The new siting policy is more flexible, but, undoubtedly, Wylfa in particular still has great potential.

My Lords, last year, Scotland met 113% of its national power needs from renewable sources alone. This is set to radically increase, providing much-needed clean power to the rest of the UK. I welcome the expansion of the £150 warm home discount to more homes in Scotland. Does the Minister agree that the SNP Government must take urgent action on energy efficiency? Their decision to scrap their own green heating plans for heat pumps in new homes will leave Scottish citizens poorer and colder.

My Lords, the noble Earl is not going to draw me into commenting on what the Scottish Government have done on these matters. However, it is worth making the point that, in 2023, 19.3% of electricity generated in Scotland came from nuclear. That indicates that, in clean power, nuclear has a huge amount to offer Scotland, Wales and England.

My Lords, would the Government’s hand not be greatly strengthened in dealing with the Scottish Government if they themselves moved ahead on a decision on small modular nuclear reactors? When do they expect to announce the outcome, and can we have something slightly more definitive than “soon”?

My Lords, I absolutely agree with my noble friend on the importance of the small modular reactor programme. He knows that Great British Nuclear is going through a selection process at the moment. We expect important announcements to be made in the spring.

My Lords, power devolved is power retained. If the Scottish Government are not acting in the interests of the United Kingdom, with their opposition to nuclear power and to oil and gas, that will create great difficulties for the rest of the United Kingdom. Has the Minister considered taking back the power for them to prevent the appropriate infrastructure needs of the country as a whole?

My Lords, I do not think it is the case that we should reopen the devolution settlement, and the noble Lord would not really expect me from the Dispatch Box to say that we should. I think it is clear that, overall, new nuclear has a huge role to play, in the baseload that it can provide and in clean power. The move towards the final investment decision on Sizewell, progress on Hinkley Point C, the SMR programme and the potential of advanced modular reactors will give us a hugely important foundation for clean power for Great Britain as a whole.

My Lords and Ladies, I speak as a former planning Minister in the Scottish Government. Does the Minister agree that the best way to address this case is not more conflict with the Scottish Government but promoting the argument for nuclear power in a positive way—and, perhaps, working hard so that Anas Sarwar becomes First Minister of Scotland and we can resolve this problem?

My Lords, those are very wise words from my noble friend.

My Lords, if the Scottish Government do not want nuclear power but are willing to use electricity that it has generated, should there not be a reflection of that in the price they pay?

My Lords, we are looking at the whole issue of zonal pricing, but I do not think we would go quite that far. It is interesting, though, that the Scottish Government were in favour of the extension to the current plant in Torness. I agree with my noble friend Lady Curran that we should work on that and be constructive in our approach. We have had fruitful discussions on some of the difficult issues around Grangemouth and the North Sea transition. We should build on the reset that the Prime Minister and the First Minister have taken forward, and we should articulate the advantage that nuclear power gives to all countries in Great Britain.