Use of Stop and Search

09:30:00

I beg to move, That this House has considered the matter of the use of stop and search. It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy. I called for this debate today because I am greatly concerned about the increasing prevalence of knife crime in our society, and it is rather apt, given that the Crime and Policing Bill had its Second Reading just this week. In the year ending September 2024, knife-enabled crime increased by 12% on the previous year. As a west midlands MP, regrettably, I am no stranger to the devastating impact of knife crime in the region on families and communities. I feel that stop and search, as backed up by evidence, can play a very important role in tackling knife crime, and that is why I have called this debate today. Let me start by talking about the impact of knife crime. The West Midlands police area recorded the highest rate of knife crime offences in England and Wales in 2023. Sadly, we are experiencing worse levels of knife crime than London, which is under the stewardship of Sadiq Khan. In 2023, offences involving a blade totalled 180 per 100,000 of the population, up from 167 in 2022. The figure for the London Met police force area was 165. That gives a sense of the scale of the problem in the West Midlands. Since being elected in 2019, which seems an age away now, the realities of the knife crime epidemic in the West Midlands have regrettably been all too clear for me. In 2019, there was the tragic case of Jack Donoghue, who was punched, kicked and stabbed in the chest in a four-on-one attack near Popworld in Solihull. In October last year, 17-year-old Reuben Higgins was stabbed on Station Road in Marston Green, near Solihull. Reuben’s family said in a statement following his tragic death: “Reuben was a loving son, grandson, brother, nephew and cousin who will be dearly missed”. On a recent edition of “BBC Politics Midlands”, I discussed the horrifying death of James Brindley, who was killed in 2017 in Aldridge, not too far from where I was brought up. I was touched by his father’s sincere hope that the lives of many young people could still be changed, so that they did not feel the need to carry knives. Just last week, the friends and family of 12-year-old schoolboy Leo Ross put him to rest. Mourners gathered at Christ church in Yardley Wood to say their final farewells to Leo, who was described by Christ Church of England academy as a “lovely and bright” pupil. Given the advice I have received, I will be very careful in what I say, because it is a live investigation, but on 21 January this year, Leo was stabbed in the stomach while walking home from school. Not only was a promising young boy’s life cut far too short, but a whole community is left grieving. Leo’s family will never get over the tragic loss of their son. His friends will have an unfillable void in their lives, and I can only imagine how worried they and their parents will be every time the school bell rings and it is time to go home. The simple act of walking home from school unaccompanied is a huge part of a young person’s life as they grow up and become independent, but now, for many in the area, it may take a bit longer to have the confidence to go out on their own. Devastating and shocking events such as these underline the importance and necessity of stopping young people getting hold of, carrying and using weapons on our streets. Although I will focus much of my speech on the importance of using stop and search, I want to put on record my view that tackling violent knife crime encompasses more than just the use of stop and search. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) outlined in the debate on the Crime and Policing Bill on Monday, we also need to tackle the issue of people, especially young boys, being sucked into gangs in the first place. I urge everyone with an interest in this issue to read the Centre for Social Justice’s report “Lost Boys”, which was published last week. It is an excellent report that highlights the issues that drive young boys—who overwhelmingly make up the victims of knife crime—to end up in criminal gangs. Although I will use my time today to advocate in favour of stop and search, I do not dismiss for a second anyone who thinks we need to take preventive action, too. My case is that they must go hand in hand. As my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green said on Monday, in many cases the knife is very much the last act. My constituents in Meriden and Solihull East are very proud of our brave police officers who work 24 hours, seven days a week to keep us safe. I want to put on the record my personal thanks to our police officers who work tirelessly to keep us all safe. I pay tribute to the chief constable, Craig Guildford, who has a great reputation in tackling some of the most violent crimes; I hope he will have that impact in the West Midlands area, too. The police work in difficult circumstances, and policing today is very different from how it was just a few decades ago. That is why I want our police forces to have everything they need, and stop and search is absolutely necessary for them to do their job effectively, without fear of being reprimanded for just doing their job. Let me be unequivocal: stop and search saves lives. There is a very strong consensus among police chiefs that it is an important tool for disrupting crime and taking weapons off our streets quickly. We can see that in London, without a doubt. It is unquestionable that there is a correlation between the Mayor’s decision to allow stop and search to drop by 44% over two years and the fact that, since he took office, knife crime offences in London have increased by 38%. Stop and search allows the police to pre-empt dangerous situations and offers an effective and credible deterrent to violent criminals who might think about carrying a dangerous weapon. Critically, stop and search not only protects the public, but might actually stop a potential perpetrator from crossing the Rubicon and taking part in illegal activity. Very simply, we need stop and search, and the law must make sure that the police are unafraid to use it. The case for stop and search is backed up by research from the Oxford journal of policing, which found that stop and search can cut the number of attempted murders by 50% or more. I do not believe we can have sensitivities around this issue. Stop and search undoubtedly has a huge role to play in cutting crime and ultimately saving lives. I proudly back the police and want them to have the appropriate powers, because every single life lost to violent crime is a tragedy. Every time a violent crime could have been prevented but was not is a shameful failure. It is a failure of national Government, of all parties of all ilks, of local government and regional government. Too often we say in the House “never again”, and yet it happens again and again. So I want to call for more stop and search powers so that we can make real and meaningful change. While there continues to be a knife crime epidemic we cannot be sensitive about the powers that we give the police to keep us safe. The work of Professor Lawrence Sherman, former chief scientific officer for the Metropolitan police, is an interesting point. Mr Sherman is very supportive of the use of stop and search, and suggests that we should focus on areas that are deemed to be high risk. He argues that the effective use of stop and search requires it to be legitimate and supported by local people. To that end, he suggests that targeted stop and search in high risk areas is necessary and has the scope to be effective. Crucially, he argues that although using data and bias might be controversial, the need to protect people should come first. In addition, Sherman, working with Alex R Piquero and the Cambridge Centre for Evidence-Based Policing, conducted 15 years of research in London, which demonstrated how effective stop and search really can be. Their paper, “Stop, Search and Knife Injuries in London”, concluded that “increased SSEs”— stop and search encounters— “can significantly reduce knife-related injuries and homicides in public places”. It is clearly backed up by the science and the data. Alongside strong academic evidence suggesting that stop and search is effective, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary also strongly advocates its usage. The report is thought-provoking and points out that little academic research has been conducted on one of the most crucial benefits of stop and search: deterrence. That is a really important point. It is likely that someone considering carrying a deadly weapon or drugs might think twice if there is a credible chance that they will get stopped and searched. In August 2022, under the guidance of the former Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel), the previous Government empowered more than 8,000 police officers to authorise enhanced stop and search powers. It came after a smaller pilot contributed to nearly 7,000 arrests for offensive weapons and 900 arrests for firearms following a stop and search. The evidence is abundantly clear that it is effective at taking weapons off our streets, which will help to bring down violent crime. Stop and search is also overwhelmingly backed by the public. In November 2022, Crest Advisory found that stop and search has a high level of support across all ethnic groups, and it found that a total of 86% of adult respondents supported the police’s right to stop and search someone if they were suspected of having a weapon on them. Of those, 77% of black adults supported the police’s having the right to stop and search to find weapons, and 71% to find class A drugs. Stop and search is a very useful and important mechanism that can be used to cut crime and keep us safe. One other statistic that I would like to share at this stage is that black people are four times more likely to be murdered as a result of knife crime. That might be some of the reason why there was so much support for stop and search among ethnic minority groups. However, these powers can only work if we have a clear police presence on our streets. Under the previous Conservative Government, I was proud that we achieved our manifesto commitment to recruit 20,000 new police officers. That allowed crime in the West Midlands to come down by 10% and led to reduced wait times after 999 calls. The new Government have a target to recruit more police officers, but I feel their numbers fall short when we properly assess their plans, because only 3,000 of them will be new officers—most of the 13,000 are either reassigned or redeployed, or are part-time volunteers or police community support officers with no powers of arrest. Perhaps the Minister may comment on that. In Meriden and Solihull East, my constituents remain concerned that their local police and crime commissioner, Simon Foster, has failed to commit to keeping Solihull police station open, and failed to have a front desk at Chelmsley Wood police station, which I have been campaigning for. The public will have greater confidence in the police force if there is a visible presence. That does not just mean police officers; there has to be infrastructure, such as police stations, that is clearly visible to warn criminals that they will be caught. It is clear that stop and search is an essential tool in law enforcement, but we cannot underestimate the centrality of prevention, as I touched on earlier. That is why the estates strategy in the West Midlands is important. Perhaps the Minister might be able to comment on that, or write to me with further details. If an individual knows that the police can stop and search them, it becomes a powerful deterrent, which may prevent some from carrying a knife. When in government, the Conservatives recognised that prevention and early interventions are as important as enforcement. That is why, between 2019 and 2024, we funded initiatives known as violence reduction units in areas across England and Wales that were most affected by serious violence.

I note the hon. Gentleman’s comments about the last Conservative Government, but does he agree that there was a slightly confused and mixed message from the 14 years of Conservative Government? We had a large portion of it where the former Prime Minister—then Home Secretary—was trying to reduce the amount of stop and search, and then, much like with the officer numbers, in 2019 there seemed to be a very sharp about-turn and an encouragement to do more. Does he agree that that was a confusing message for police officers, like myself, who were serving at the time?

I am pleased to hear from the hon. Gentleman, and I wish him all the best in all his previous and future service. However, I do not agree that there were mixed messages. We were very clear in 2019 that we would increase the police force, and we hit that manifesto target. I think the confusion comes now with the new targets put forward by the Labour Government, and the lack of clarity on whether there will actually be 13,000 new officers. I was speaking about the violence reduction units, which reached over 271,000 people in their fourth year alone and, in combination with additional visible policing patrols, prevented an estimated 3,200 hospital admissions for violent injury. Stop and search is a vital tool, but by cutting the sale and distribution of knives, we can further keep knife crime down. That is why I was proud that between 2019 and 2024, more than 138,000 weapons had been removed from Britain’s streets, with almost half seized in stop and search. On Monday, on Second Reading of the Crime and Policing Bill, I listened to powerful speeches from Members across the House. I agreed when the shadow Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), argued that it was vital to have stop-and-search powers—as I had also previously said. However, stop and search numbers are currently down due to, in my view, misplaced concerns about community tensions. As the Bill progresses through Parliament, I deem it essential that the Government get police forces to use stop and search more. That means that legislation should be amended to make stop and search easier. In particular, what steps is the Minister taking to amend the Police and Criminal Evidence Act 1984—specifically, code A—to make it easier for police officers to use stop and search? As outlined by police chiefs and academics, stop and search is an important tool in the fight against violent crime. But I fear that police are not using this power to its fullest extent because of fears of being sued, disciplined or called racist. I am afraid that, given the horrific impact of knife crime, we cannot be sensitive about this. That is why I join the shadow Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South, in calls to amend PACE guidelines to make it easier for the police to use these vital powers. In addition, just before the election, in May 2024, the Conservatives gave the Home Office a £4 million boost to fight knife crime, with £3.5 million put into research and development for new technologies, which can detect knives carried from a distance. I think the following point was addressed on Second Reading, but could the Minister reaffirm? It has been indicated that this technology is nearly ready to be used and rolled out in its entirety. It has the potential to greatly improve the police’s detection powers, which will help to keep knives off our streets and protect vulnerable people. To that end, what steps has the Minister been taking to harness new technologies in the fight against knife crime? This is not party political; it is an issue that affects us all. I am happy to work with and support the Minister on a cross-party basis, because I want knives off the street. As I outlined at the start, the West Midlands is experiencing a higher rate of knife crime per 100,000 of the population than London. I hope this debate will put pressure on our PCC in the West Midlands, Simon Foster, who is presiding over a catastrophic escalation in knife crime in the region. My offer of support also goes to him, because the issue is too important. The knife crime epidemic in London and the West Midlands is a deep cause for concern, but in some areas knife crime is coming down and there may be lessons to learn. I pay tribute to the PCC for Leicestershire, Rupert Matthews, who has helped drive down knife crime by 8%; the PCC for Staffordshire, Ben Adams, who has seen knife crime fall by 10%; the PCC for Kent, Matthew Scott, who has seen it fall by 16%; and the PCC for Warwickshire, Philip Seccombe, who has seen it fall by 18%. Everyone in this House has a duty to keep our constituents safe. Since being elected in 2019 I have seen plenty of tragic reminders that, despite all the good work of our police, killings by knife crime are still happening on the streets of Britain. That is why I believe that stop and search must be used responsibly to help fight crime and prevent tragic deaths on our streets.

09:46:00

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Sir Jeremy. I thank the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) for setting the scene so well. I recall that the hon. Member has had a debate on this issue in Parliament previously; it is important to revisit the subject and comment on it. I am a supporter of stop and search as a way to ensure public safety and reduce crime. Our streets must be a safe place for everyone, which is the thrust of what stop and search tries to achieve. Over the past few years we have witnessed some horrific incidents of crime and violence, so it is important to discuss and raise these matters. As I often do, I will bring a Northern Ireland perspective to the debate, by speaking about what we are doing in Northern Ireland in relation to stop and search. We have a different aspect, in that we have had a terrorist campaign for some 30-plus years. That is thankfully much reduced and a peace settlement is place that both communities seem to have bought into. None the less, the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s policy is to continue stop and search. Stop and search is used to prioritise public safety throughout the UK and, in this case, Northern Ireland. Most recent statistics from the PSNI highlight that between the start of January and the end of December 2024, the PSNI conducted 19,288 stop-and-search operations—a 24% decrease compared with 2023. In 2023, there had been a 6% increase on the year before. There have been ups and downs and disparities, but the PSNI sees stop and search as a clear, consistent enforcement measure that reduces crime and the threat of violence on the street, while addressing what law-abiding citizens want to see in their country. I commend the PSNI for that, and am glad to report that crime levels in my Strangford constituency are down. That might be inconsistent with the trend elsewhere, but it is welcome that the police are very active and, alongside the community and elected representatives, are able to reduce crime noticeably. There is a history of conflict in Northern Ireland, which everyone will recall and be aware of, so there are still concerns about terrorism, even though its level is much reduced, and about its impact on crime and modern society. Even beyond potential terrorism, stop and search has been used to address several crimes, including drug use and trafficking, gun violence, gang activity and carrying violent weapons. We have to remember this about Northern Ireland: although the paramilitaries may not be fighting a “cause” as such, from either side of the community, and some have walked away from their past, others have just changed their affiliation and become criminal gangs, which the PSNI has to take on to reduce what they are doing in communities and on the streets. Conducting stop and search is supposed to remain a positive attribute in society. In my opinion—from experience in my constituency and further afield in Northern Ireland—it works, provided it is done sensitively. We have seen more than 10,000 arrests for illegal drug possession and use, so there is proof that it is a worthy method. Is it successful? It is. Does it reduce crime? It does. These things are factually and evidentially true. However, there need to be assurances that different communities across the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland do not feel threatened. It must be emphasised that the scheme is not out to single out certain groups or people. This is not about skin colour or ethnicity. It is about crime and those who break the law, irrespective of who or what they are in the community. Confidence in policing is crucial and we must ensure that the disproportionate use of stop and search does not undermine the need and necessity for good policing. There is crime everywhere. It is a fact. But the job of the PSNI in Northern Ireland, and the job of the police across the United Kingdom, is to stop it. That is what the normal person in society wants to see. Some areas are worse than others when it comes to crime, and particular crimes are more prevalent in some areas. However, the intent remains the same. There is good cause, I believe, to use stop-and-search powers transparently, to preserve individuals’ rights and equally to maintain and improve public safety. At the beginning of my remarks I should have welcomed the Minister to her place, as I always do. I look forward to her contribution. I know that she has responsibility for England and not Northern Ireland, but I also know she is keen to work alongside all the other regions in the United Kingdom to improve things for everyone. She sits here at Westminster because that is what she was elected for; I sit for Northern Ireland, including Strangford. The policing improvements that can happen here through her work and her Department’s work will benefit us all. I also look forward to the contribution from the Conservative spokesperson, the hon. Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers), and from the Lib Dem spokesperson, the hon. Member for Hazel Grove (Lisa Smart). Everyone’s contribution enlightens this debate and targets agreement on the need to have active stop and search, respecting the human rights of everyone in this country. I look to the Minister to respond with a commitment to ensure that Northern Ireland and all the devolved nations here on the mainland are able to improve conviction rates through the efficient and proper use of stop and search. If it is done the right way, it is the right thing to do.

09:53:00

It is always a relief to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Jeremy. I congratulate the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) on securing this debate, which comes at a crucial time as we discuss the new Government’s Crime and Policing Bill. When we legislate to give the police more powers, it is important that we properly assess the powers they currently have and how they are already being used. Police stop and search is an issue of serious importance for my constituents. The reason is twofold. First, my constituency of Clapham and Brixton Hill has a high proportion of young black and ethnic minority men, who we know are disproportionately targeted for random stop and search. Secondly, and unfortunately, my constituency experiences high levels of gang violence, drug dealing and antisocial behaviour more generally, which creates serious issues for the area. My remarks today will address those two points. First, on the disproportionate use of police stop and search on black, Asian and ethnic minority communities, the evidence is clear. According to the latest Government data, in the year ending 31 March 2023, some 529,474 stop and searches were conducted in England and Wales, equating to 8.9 stop and searches per 1,000 individuals. However, when the figures are disaggregated by ethnicity, we see that black people were subject to 24.5 stop and searches per 1,000 people, Asian people 8.5 stop and searches per 1,000 people and white people 5.9 stop and searches per 1,000 people. That means that black people are over four times more likely to be stopped and searched. Report after report reveals the severe problem of institutional racism in the Metropolitan police. The overuse of stop and search to target black and ethnic minority communities is stark evidence of that. It has resulted in entire communities feeling unfairly targeted, over-policed and alienated from law enforcement, and this does not serve anybody. Black and ethnic minority people are no more likely to commit crimes than their white counterparts. I repeat that: black and ethnic minority people are no more likely to commit crimes than their white counterparts. They are also no more likely to be in possession of illegal substances or objects than their white counterparts. Yet they are more likely to be stopped and searched, and it is for this reason they are more likely to appear in criminal statistics. The disproportionate use of stop and search has a severe impact on community trust in the police, which is at an all-time low, particularly in boroughs like Lambeth, which already has the lowest trust in policing across London, according to the Mayor of London’s most recent data. Many people simply do not believe officers will treat them fairly, because the reality is that they do not, and that lack of confidence makes community policing far less effective. This is not just a question of numbers: it is about lived experiences. It is about young black men being stopped multiple times a week for no good reason. It is about people feeling criminalised simply as they walk down the street and go about their business. It is about communities feeling that the police are there not to protect them but to harass them. Policing by consent is a fundamental principle of British policing. The relationship between the police and the public should be built on trust, respect and co-operation. Random, unjustified stop and searches undermine that principle entirely. That is why I have been steadfast in calling for the abolition of section 60 stop-and-search powers. To be clear—I want to be absolutely clear on this—intelligence-based stop and search can be, has been and will continue to be a useful tool to tackle crime.

On disproportionality, the UK figures are really quite misleading, because they take into account huge swathes of the country that are almost overwhelmingly white and where no stop and search is done. The fact is that black people disproportionately live in the cities and that is where stop and search is being done, and they happen to live in areas such as my hon. Friend’s constituency, where a lot of stop and search is being done. I urge some caution when we look at the disproportionality figures, to ensure that we do not mislead people and undermine confidence in the police in these ethnic minority communities by suggesting that all police use these powers inappropriately. In my experience, that is not the case with the vast majority of officers; the vast majority of stop and searches are conducted appropriately.

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution, but the figures are absolutely clear. Although I get what he says about the proportion of black people across the country, I am talking about lived experiences. I am talking about the experiences of people who live in my constituency and in other parts of the country who feel like they are being targeted. This is not just about the numbers: it is about what is happening to people on a daily basis. The reality of the situation is that people need the police. We have heard in the debate already that black people can in some cases, in relation to particular crimes, be disproportionately the victims of crime. For that reason, we need to be able to work with the police in our communities, but it is difficult to do that if people feel like they are being harassed by them. The reason why I point to intelligence-led policing is that if police are able to work with the people in their communities and they are able to trust the police, they can often be the ones to provide the intelligence that helps to prevent other crimes. But if they feel like they are being impacted by stops and searches, they see the police as an enemy. I want them to see the police for who they are meant to be—the people who keep them safe. The second point I want to raise is about increased gang crime, drug dealing and overall antisocial behaviour in Clapham and Brixton Hill. As I have said, effective, intelligence-led stop and search could help to clamp down on that, but its inconsistent application is undermining police efforts. In areas such as Brixton, known drug dealers and criminals are often not targeted with stop and search, while young black men with no criminal records are repeatedly stopped. This selective approach raises concerns about policing priorities, and about whether the police are focused on reducing crime or on maintaining control over certain communities. When I raise the issue of known offenders not being searched, I am often told that the police do not currently have the powers to intervene. I find that incomprehensible. It cannot be true: the police arguably have more powers now than they have had in a very long time, so I cannot begin to imagine what more powers they could possibly need to carry out their work. Things may need to be done to increase their confidence, but they certainly do not need more powers. Rather than creating new police powers, which is the current trend, we ought to look at how the police are using the powers they have and how they can use them more effectively. If people are going to trust the police, there has to be genuine transparency and accountability around their powers, and that has include stop and search. Stop and search has to be evidence-led, and to tackle crime the police have to work with the communities they serve.

10:01:00

It is a pleasure to be in this debate and to have you in the Chair, Sir Jeremy. I congratulate the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) on securing a debate on this important topic. The hon. Gentleman powerfully laid out some utterly tragic cases, and made the point, rightly, that far too many young people are losing their lives to knife crime. I strongly agree with him on the need to support our police as they tackle and prevent crime, and I particularly agree with his point about the importance of preventing crime. He said there is not one simple answer to how we do that, and I very much agree. However, many of my remarks will mirror those of the hon. Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill (Bell Ribeiro-Addy). The foundation of the policing model in this country is trust. The police are a vital part of our community, and trust is built and protected by using approaches and tactics that both show results and apply fairly to us all. Any successful policing model must strike the right balance between individual freedoms and keeping our communities safe, and any discussion of stop-and-search tactics is really a discussion of where we think that balance sits. For too many, stop and search is not a policing tactic that builds trust. Trust is undoubtedly the foundation of any effective policing model, and without it, communities can disengage, co-operation can dwindle and crime prevention can suffer. Today, too many communities who should feel protected by the police are instead made to feel like targets. According to Home Office stats, which the hon. Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill mentioned, in the UK black people are around four times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people. When it comes to suspicionless stop and search under section 60, the figure is even higher. The Liberal Democrats are calling for an end to the disproportionate use of stop and search, and that includes abolishing suspicionless stop-and-search powers. The evidence is clear: the surge in the use of section 60 stop and search between 2016 and 2020 coincided with a drastic decline in arrest rates. Polling from the Criminal Justice Alliance found that three quarters of black, Asian and minority ethnic young people believe that their communities are unfairly targeted by stop and search. We want all members of our community to engage with policing efforts to keep our neighbourhoods safe, but that is made difficult if people do not trust the police to act fairly. We must not forget that these are not just statistics; we are talking about the everyday lives of people in our local communities. We need a police force that serves and protects, not one that alienates and discriminates. That is why the Lib Dems are fighting to ensure that stop and search is always used fairly, proportionately and only when there is a genuine suspicion of wrongdoing. That is how trust is built. However, this debate is not just about what we must stop; it is also about what we must start and what we must do more of. The new Labour Government have a unique chance to consider exactly that. As I outlined on Monday in the Second Reading debate on the Crime and Policing Bill, we will support the Government in any efforts they make to return to proper, visible neighbourhood policing. Everyone deserves to feel safe in their own home and walking down their own streets, yet under the previous Conservative Government that was far from the reality. Our police forces remain overstretched, under resourced and unable to focus on the crimes that affect people the most. The record speaks for itself: every day 6,000 cases or so are closed without a suspect being identified, and only 6% of reported crimes result in a suspect being charged. In a move that defies logic, the last Government slashed the number of police community support officers by more than 4,500 since 2015. Those PCSOs were the backbone of community policing. They were familiar, trusted faces in our neighbourhoods—building relationships, offering support and preventing crime. This new Government have an opportunity to do much more than tinker around the edges of policing, and we will push them to commit to restoring proper community policing, which is a model that has been abandoned for too long. The use of stop and search disproportionately can divide our police from our communities, whereas proper neighbourhood policing builds the trust and co-operation that our police force so desperately needs. Our communities deserve better, and the Lib Dems will continue to fight for a fairer, more effective approach to policing—one that prioritises neighbourhood policing and community trust. That is how we make our communities safer and build trust: by building a policing system that works for everyone.

10:06:00

First and foremost, I extend my condolences to the families of those who lost their lives so tragically to knife crime. Every life lost as a consequence of knife crime is a tragedy. As Members from all parties acknowledged during Monday’s debate on the Crime and Policing Bill, we owe it to the victims and their families to support police forces by ensuring that robust measures are in place to stop those crimes. Incidents of knife crime reiterate our responsibility to our constituents. We must support the police, and provide them with the powers and resources to intervene and take those horrendous weapons off the streets. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) for securing this debate, and for rightly highlighting the need to remove offensive weapons from our streets if we are to save lives. He is right that we cannot have sensitivities around the issue; we must ensure that the police have the ability to stop and search any individuals they believe pose a danger. We must ensure that they have the power and the freedom to achieve that, if we want them to effectively protect the public. As a number of Members have highlighted, stop and search remains a critical tool for the police in stopping crime. One figure alone underlines its necessity: the number of weapons being found. The data released covering the period until March 2024 showed that 16,066 stop and searches resulted in an offensive weapon or firearm being found. That statistic alone is sufficient to justify the use of stop and search. In London, stop and search has taken 400 knives a month off the streets in the past. We have consistently seen a significant number of weapon seizures in London—seizures that would not have happened without stop and search. Over the past four years, 17,500 weapons were seized as a result of stop and search, including at least 3,500 in 2024. However, the issue is not confined to London. In 2023-24, in the west midlands there were over 6,000 resultant arrests, while Greater Manchester reported 5,620 resultant arrests. Rightly, we focus on the impact that stop and search can have in apprehending those who carry dangerous weapons. However, I appreciate that weapons are not always the most common reasons for stop and searches. That should not undermine the need for the police to stop individuals when they have reasonable grounds to suspect that they are carrying illegal drugs or stolen property. Both of those activities are illegal, and the police should be able to intervene to prevent them. Drug offences remain a flagrant breach of the law, undermining our communities. Members will be aware that PACE code A sets out stringent criteria regarding stop and search. It is appropriate that the extensive guidance in its 39 pages ensure that it is conducted properly. However, historically a number of officers have raised concerns that stop and search numbers are down due to misplaced concerns about community tension. I echo the words of the shadow Home Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), and encourage the Government to ensure that police forces use stop and search more. Where appropriate they should amend legislation, including PACE code A, to make its use easier for officers. We cannot be in a situation where officers have significant concerns about intervening. Moving forward, we should all be able to agree on the need to improve the effectiveness of stop and search. In the past, police forces have had to make changes to ensure that it is used more effectively. We should always strive to make searches more efficient and increase the number of positive outcomes. Research suggests that when police communicate effectively with the public, the stop and search process can become significantly smoother. Although there may be occasions when attempts to communicate are met with undesirable outcomes, such as hostility, that does not mean that fewer searches should be carried out, but rather that we should conduct them even more effectively. It was welcome to hear the Minister speak, on Second Reading of the Crime and Policing Bill, about the Home Office’s continued work with industry partners to develop systems capable of detecting concealed knives from a distance. The shadow Home Secretary was correct to allocate funding to such projects in his former role, to ensure that we develop the necessary resources. Phase 1 of that Innovate UK project is expected to be completed by the end of May, resulting in the first prototype systems, so it would be interesting to hear whether the Minister believes that the work produced by the Innovate projects can help the police act more effectively in this area. It will be essential to integrate technology with the available stop and search powers. In parts of London we have already seen how effective that technology can be. For example, deployments of facial recognition technology in London across January and February this year recorded a maximum false alert rate of just 0.008% in a single deployment. That demonstrates how we can enhance police effectiveness with technology and how crucial it will be to use these tools alongside stop and search to strengthen policing capabilities. Police forces, including the Met, have worked with a range of stakeholders to develop a stop and search charter. Communication from Met officers clearly highlights their strong support for stop and search. I think that everyone in this debate would welcome attempts to build trust in the system, particularly by fostering an open dialogue with local communities. However, that must be balanced with ensuring that police forces, such as the Met, retain the freedom to operate effectively. Across the country, other forces have implemented similar measures. Will the Minister commit to monitoring the impact of community involvement to ensure that police forces are not unduly influenced by a vocal minority opposed to stop and search and instead listen to the broader community, whose main concern is reducing crime? Like other hon. Members, I want stop and search to be applied as extensively as necessary. Given the prevalence of knife crime, we must recognise that an increase in the use of stop and search can have serious benefits. However, such an increase is contingent on the availability of police officers. The funding pressures facing police forces in the coming financial year amount to approximately £118 million more than the funding increase they are set to receive. As the National Police Chiefs’ Council has warned, that funding gap will “inevitably lead to cuts across forces”. The 43 police forces of England and Wales may have to cut as many as 1,800 officers to make up for the shortfall. It would be valuable to hear whether the Minister believes that funding gap will impact the police’s ability to conduct essential activities such as stop and search. Everyone who has participated in this debate has recognised the need to make our communities safer. We believe that stop and search plays a vital role in enabling the police to take the action necessary to achieve that. I hope that the Government will commit to ensuring that stop and search remains a key tool in the fight against crime.

10:13:00

It is a pleasure to serve under you this morning, Sir Jeremy. I thank the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East (Saqib Bhatti) for securing this important debate, and for an eloquent speech setting out his concerns about the issues of knife crime and stop and search. I want to remember, as the hon. Gentleman did, the young people who he referred to—the victims of knife crime in the West Midlands. Jack Donoghue, Reuben Higgins, James Brindley and Leo Ross were all victims of knife crime, and all our thoughts and prayers will be with their friends and family. I also acknowledge, just as the hon. Gentleman did, the work of the police. They work tirelessly, day in and day out, to keep us all safe. And I pay tribute to West Midlands police, Chief Constable Craig Guildford and the police and crime commissioner, Simon Foster. I was also just reflecting on the fact that in the West Midlands, the figures for knife-enabled robbery are declining, so the data is going the right way in the West Midlands on that particular issue, which is worth flagging. I am very grateful to all hon. Members who have contributed to this wide- ranging and very thoughtful debate on this important topic. Of course it is always helpful to hear from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) about the experience in Northern Ireland. He is absolutely right that, as the Policing Minister, I am very keen that we learn from the different nations and countries and regions about what is working. We all want to see a reduction in the crime that blights parts of our communities, so I welcome his insights from Northern Ireland. As ever, my hon. Friend the Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) spoke thoughtfully and with great eloquence about the knotty problems around stop and search, its disproportionate use on certain communities and the lived experience of individuals. I will make some comments about that in a moment, but first I note the interventions by my hon. Friend the Member for Pendle and Clitheroe (Jonathan Hinder). Again, it was very helpful to hear his perspective as a former police officer; his experience adds to the richness of the debate that we can have in this place. As I said, I will talk about stop and search, but I will also make some comments about knife crime in a moment. Stop and search is a complex issue and, as we have heard, often a divisive issue as well. It is a vital tool for tackling crime, but it must be used fairly and effectively. Getting that balance right is key to this Government’s mission to make our streets safer and restore confidence in the police. I will just refer to two points made by the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East. The first one was about officer confidence. It is absolutely essential that the police have the confidence of the communities they serve, but of course it is also essential that officers have the confidence they need to do the vital and often extremely difficult job of keeping us all safe. Every police officer should have the confidence to use stop-and-search powers where they have reasonable grounds to suspect that someone is carrying weapons, drugs or other illicit items. Chief constables and other police leaders play a critical role in ensuring that officers have that confidence. We have been discussing how important it is that police officers understand PACE code A and use it properly. Of course the College of Policing also provides detailed and authorised professional practice on stop and search, to ensure that police officers have both knowledge and confidence. In the majority of forces across England and Wales, the total number of searches conducted has risen for the last two years in a row; that is not the case in the Metropolitan police area, but in the majority of areas the number is going up. The shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers), asked me about knife detection technology, as did the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East. I agree with the shadow Minister that technology has an important part to play; I know that the former Policing Minister, the right hon. Member for Croydon South (Chris Philp), is very passionate about this issue and talks about it a lot. As I said on Second Reading of the Crime and Policing Bill, the Home Office is working with industry partners to develop systems that are specifically designed to detect knives concealed on a person at a distance. Phase one of that work is expected to be delivered by the end of May, resulting in the first prototype systems, so I hope I will be able to talk more about that technology after May. I will just say again why we think stop and search is so important. In the year to March 2024, stop and search led to over 16,000 offensive weapons being taken off our streets. There were more than 75,000 arrests following a stop and search for a range of offences, including weapons possession and intent to supply drugs. In short, stop and search helps police to save lives and tackle crime. When officers have reasonable grounds, they should, as I have said, feel confident using these powers. Policing sector leaders, including Metropolitan Police Commissioner Sir Mark Rowley, His Majesty’s chief inspector of constabulary Sir Andy Cooke and the Independent Office for Police Conduct, are all clear that stop and search is an important part of the police toolkit. Public opinion agrees: recent research shows that a majority of people, across all ethnic groups, support the use of stop and search, and a majority of young people also agree that the police should have stop-and-search powers. However, policing sector leaders stress that, if done badly, stop and search undermines trust in the police and can damage their relationships with the communities they serve, which in turn can lead to less co-operation and compliance and ultimately make it harder for the police to keep people safe. Turning to the issue of fairness, stop-and-search powers have long been seen to affect some communities disproportionately, with stark ethnic disparities in their use, as my hon. Friend the Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill mentioned. This Government cautiously welcome the fact that disparities in the use of stop and search have fallen in recent years. Five years ago, black people were over nine times more likely to be stopped and searched than white people, but that has fallen to 3.7 times more likely in the most recent data. That number is still far too high, which is why the Government backs the National Police Chiefs’ Council’s police race action plan. Earlier this month, I met the NPCC team leading the work on that action plan, along with the independent scrutiny and chair of the oversight board. The plan aims to foster anti-racist culture, values and behaviours in policing that will inform all operational policing practices, improving experiences and outcomes for black people. On stop and search in particular, the plan commits chief constables to identifying and addressing stop-and-search disparities, particularly on drug searches and the searches of children. I will work with police leaders to ensure that the aims of the plan are adopted and embedded in all forces. The Government are also introducing a requirement for police forces to collect data on the ethnicity of people stopped by police under section 163 of the Road Traffic Act 1998, which will help to address concerns about potential disparities in the use of traffic stops. I turn now to section 60 “without suspicion” searches. Where serious violence has occurred, or where intelligence suggests that it may occur, a senior police officer may authorise police to use stop and search without reasonable suspicion. These authorisations, known as section 60 authorisations, are limited to a particular area for a particular period of time, usually no longer than 24 hours. The powers are used exceptionally and are rightly subject to strict constraints, but these searches are contentious within communities, and it is concerning that rates of ethnic disproportionality for section 60 searches are particularly high. The Home Office is introducing new data collection on section 60 that will come into effect from April, including on the authorisation decisions and the locations authorised. That will help improve transparency and accountability for the use of this power. His Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary and fire and rescue services has made a range of recommendations on section 60 for police forces and agencies, and the public will expect to see the policing sector respond comprehensively to those recommendations. Looking at the effectiveness of stop and search, we know that it works best when it is used in a targeted and intelligence-led way against active offenders and when officers have strong grounds for suspicion. This point is supported in recent work by the highly respected Youth Endowment Fund. I will move on to knife crime. We should not lose sight of the fact that, while stop and search is one part of how we address the problems around knife crime, enforcement is only one part of the overall approach. We need to tackle knife crime in many different ways and prevention remains the most effective mechanism for tackling crime, which is why this Government have made a commitment to halving knife crime. Within that effort, investing in vulnerable young people is a key priority. The Young Futures programme aims to intervene earlier, ensuring that vulnerable children are identified and offered support in a much more systematic way. It will also create more opportunities for young people in their communities through the provision, for example, of open access mental health support, mentoring and careers support. We are also bringing in new and stronger laws to crack down on the sale of dangerous knives. These measures will help to deter potential perpetrators—young people—and make our streets safer. It is also worth referring back to a manifesto commitment that this Government made to ensure that every young person found in possession of a knife is referred to a youth offending team and given a mandatory plan to prevent reoffending. To the questions raised about neighbourhood policing, part of making our streets safer is seeing that visible police presence, which, sadly, has reduced over recent years in our neighbourhoods, town centres and villages. That is why we are putting 13,000 uniformed officers back on to our streets. A question was asked about the allocation of that 13,000. The 13,000 is over the course of this Parliament. The Government have doubled the amount of money going into neighbourhood policing from next month to £200 million. We initially identified £100 million in the provisional police settlement, but we have doubled that to £200 million. We are in discussions with police forces to make sure that the allocations work for the individual police forces; they are coming forward with the workforce mix that they believe will work best for them in the communities that they serve. That announcement will be made shortly.

In terms of the big concerns around redeployment in that space, does the Minister think there is any risk that the redeployment of police officers from response policing could affect the response times when people dial 999?

Of course we want to see all parts of policing properly staffed and funded. That is why there is more than £1 billion going into the policing settlement for the coming year, over and above what was in the 2024-25 Budget. This Government are committed to making sure we have officers in our neighbourhoods and communities. Equally, response is something that PCCs and chief constables will be very mindful of, but it is clear that policing can walk and talk at the same time. We are saying that neighbourhood policing needs to be built up again after the decimation that we have seen, but that does not mean that other parts of policing will not be business as usual. Policing will be able to deal with that. There was mention of the Metropolitan police and their stop-and-search charter; I think that was raised by the shadow Minister. I welcome that charter, with its emphasis on respect, training, supervision and oversight. I look forward to seeing how its delivery plan progresses, and what impact it has on the work of building public trust that my hon. Friend the Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill referred to. On violence reduction, we recognise the valuable work and significant progress made by violence reduction units, which were set up under the previous Government to understand what is going on with serious violence. The police funding settlement for next year includes £49.7 million for the continuation of their work to prevent serious violence, delivered through their VRU programmes. The VRUs bring together local partners to understand and tackle the drivers of serious violence in their area and facilitate the sharing of data across organisational boundaries to build a shared understanding of the root causes of violence locally. In response to those programmes, VRUs are delivering a range of early interventions, doing preventive work to divert young people in particular away from a life of crime. That work includes mentoring, trusted adult programmes, intensive behavioural therapies and sports-based diversionary activities, which are all really positive. We want the Young Futures programme to build on the work of the VRUs to improve how we identify, reach and support young people at risk of being drawn into violence. That is why we will be asking them to play a leading role in the establishment of the Young Futures prevention partnerships programme, which builds on the existing partnership networks and their considerable experience and expertise to test and develop a model before moving to national roll-out. It is also worth mentioning the coalition to tackle knife crime. We have an ambitious target of halving knife crime over the next 10 years, but we will not be able to achieve that in isolation; we need to work together with those who share our vision for safer communities. That is why the Prime Minister launched the coalition to tackle knife crime in September, bringing together campaign groups, community leaders, the families of those who have tragically lost their lives to knife crime—James Brindley’s family are involved with the coalition—and young people who have been impacted, united in their mission to save lives. From the west midlands, we have Pooja Kanda, Lynne Baird and, as I said, Mark Brindley as members of the coalition. Having the lived experience of young people is critical to the coalition, and we are keen to ensure that they have a platform to share their views, ideas and solutions to make Britain a safer place for the next generation. I also want to mention serious violence reduction orders, because they are pertinent to the west midlands. Four police forces, including West Midlands police, are currently piloting serious violence reduction orders, as part of a two-year pilot that began in April 2023 and is due to finish in April this year. These are court orders that can be placed on adults upon conviction of a knife or offensive weapons offence, and they provide police with the power to automatically stop and search individuals convicted of knife offences, with the aim of deterring habitual knife-carrying behaviour. The pilot is being robustly and independently evaluated in terms of its effectiveness in tackling knife crime, as well as any disproportionality in its use, and I look forward to seeing the results. Finally, I want to talk about gangs, which a number of Members referred to. It is crucial that we tackle the gang culture that lures children and young people into crime and runs county lines through violence and exploitation. As we committed to do in our manifesto, we are introducing a new offence of criminal exploitation of children in the Crime and Policing Bill. That new criminal offence is necessary to increase convictions of exploiters, deter gangs from enlisting children and improve identification of victims. Alongside the new offence, we are creating a new regime for child criminal exploitation prevention orders, to prevent exploitative conduct committed by adults against children from occurring or reoccurring. We all know that county lines are the most violent model of drug supply and the most harmful form of child criminal exploitation. Through the county lines programme, we will continue to target exploitative drug-dealing gangs and break the model of organised crime groups behind the trade. We know that through stop and search, police may come into contact with children who they suspect are victims of criminal exploitation, and it is vital that police take an appropriate safeguarding approach to potential victims and ensure they receive appropriate support. We are providing specialist support for children and young people to escape county lines and child criminal exploitation, and we will be delivering on our manifesto commitment to roll out further support through the Young Futures programme. I repeat my thanks to the hon. Member for Meriden and Solihull East for securing the debate, and to all Members who have participated. This is a sensitive issue, and I am grateful for the constructive and insightful nature of the discussion today. The Government’s position is clear: stop and search is an important tool, but it must be used fairly and effectively. Getting that balance right is key, and I am keen to carry on working with the police to achieve the best outcomes we can.

With a little more than the usual two minutes, I call Saqib Bhatti to wind up the debate.

10:34:00

Thank you for calling me, Sir Jeremy; you will be pleased to know that I do not have a 26-minute winding-up speech. I thank all Members across Westminster Hall for their contributions. I thank the shadow Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Stockton West (Matt Vickers), for the challenge he set, and the Policing Minister for the constructive way in which she engaged in the debate. I absolutely accept the stats that the hon. Member for Clapham and Brixton Hill (Bell Ribeiro-Addy) set out. Although the suspect-adjusted disparity stats still show that black men are more likely to get searched, it is much more targeted, but no stats are perfect. It is really important that communities have trust in policing, and I am conscious of a narrative being built up that might undermine police officers in those communities. I suspect this debate will rage on. I will continue to work with the shadow Minister, and I offer to work with the Minister to change the guidance to make the lives of police officers easier. I want the Minister to succeed, because her success means saving lives, and it means that when we say, “Never again”, it really does mean never again. Question put and agreed to. Resolved, That this House has considered the matter of the use of stop and search.

10:35:00