Disorder in Ballymena

Private Notice Question

15:53:00

Asked by

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the disorder in Ballymena.

My Lords, the recent scenes of civil disorder that we have seen in Ballymena have no place in Northern Ireland. The attacks on police officers as they work to keep people safe, and on property, are wholly unacceptable. I express my sincere thanks to the PSNI, the Northern Ireland Fire & Rescue Service and the Northern Ireland Ambulance Service, which have worked in difficult conditions over the past few days to keep people safe. My thoughts and prayers are with those officers still receiving treatment and with the communities across Northern Ireland who woke up this morning very scared.

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Baroness. We too condemn unreservedly the appalling acts of racist thuggery in Ballymena, for which there can be not a single shred of justification. There is nothing remotely British about wrapping oneself in the union flag and attacking migrants, forcing people from their homes and scapegoating entire communities anywhere in the United Kingdom. Like the noble Baroness, I commend the bravery and resolve of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and the other emergency services, which have our unstinting support. Our thoughts are with the more than 30 officers who have been injured. Can the noble Baroness tell the House what conversations the Secretary of State has had with the Justice Minister over levels of support for the PSNI, and what contingencies are in place for additional resources should the violence be sustained over a period or spread elsewhere? One of the most effective deterrents is for offenders to be dealt with quickly and effectively through the courts. Given that we still have some cases pending from the disorder last summer, what conversations are taking place about the need significantly to speed up the operation of the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland?

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his comments, especially about our incredibly brave security and police personnel, who have been running towards danger, as many of us have watched on television over the last 48 hours. The noble Lord raises an appropriate point about conversations between the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Executive and Assembly to make sure that the appropriate support is in place. Noble Lords may be aware that Jon Boutcher is in the process of submitting a request to the National Police Coordination Centre for mutual aid to support current policing operations. The Secretary of State is having active conversations with both the Minister of Justice and the PSNI, and hopes to visit Ballymena in the coming days.

My Lords, from these Benches we utterly condemn in the strongest possible terms the mindless violence perpetrated by a small number of people on the back of what was intended to be a peaceful demonstration. I commend the PSNI for its work in trying to contain the violence, and our thoughts are with those officers who have been injured. Can the noble Baroness say what meetings she has had with community leaders, and whether the Government intend to give additional support for community cohesion projects in Northern Ireland?

My Lords, I am pleased that we all share the same tone with regard to current events and what is happening. The policing family are currently having to cope with a great deal, knowing that there may well be further operations in due course. I am pleased that the whole House sends its support. Noble Lords will have seen, as I have, horrendous images of what has happened within the community. As we saw both last summer and at various points of community tension across the United Kingdom, this is not something that will be solved tomorrow. Community cohesion efforts will have to continue for months and years, to rebuild what has been broken over the last 24 hours. Northern Ireland Office officials have been meeting and engaging with community groups and will continue to do so. With regard to additional funding, I was pleased that the Chancellor, during the spending review, announced an £11 million pot for community cohesion products for Northern Ireland.

My Lords, I live in Ballymena, and it is awful to see what happened there. It must have taken enormous courage for officers to face the petrol bombs and other missiles that were hurled at them. I salute that courage and I condemn absolutely what happened on the streets of our town. Is the noble Baroness aware that the PSNI has only 6,200 officers? Had police numbers in Northern Ireland kept pace with those in England and Wales, and with the numbers to which the noble Lord, Lord Hanson, referred previously, we would have had 8,000 police officers. We do not have enough police officers. Officers in the PSNI still face national security risks and police them, and are still at risk of murder and attack every day. Over the past 10 years, legacy has cost us £160 million. That would have given us at least 3,000 extra officers. The PSNI cannot recruit any more officers within the current budget. Can the noble Baroness tell us not that policing is a devolved matter but what steps His Majesty’s Government are taking to provide real ring-fenced funding for legacy costs, attributable to the long periods of direct rule, in order to allow our police service to recruit more officers, so that officers may police safely and the people of Ballymena and Northern Ireland may be safe?

The noble Baroness has raised this issue with me several times and, unfortunately, my position cannot change. This is a devolved matter. At the other end of the building today, the Chancellor announced a record £19.3 billion of funding for the Northern Ireland Executive. We were all delighted to see Stormont return, but it is up to the Executive how they allocate that resource. The Barnett formula has a 24% additional consequential to ensure that there is appropriate funding to recognise the special status of Northern Ireland. However, the noble Baroness raises a genuinely important point. The New Decade, New Approach agreement announced by the Executive promised to increase the number of officers to 7,500. They are short, and efforts need to be made, which is why we have announced additional security funding of £38 million—an increase from the last Government—to ensure that that amount of money can be ring-fenced to reflect the additional security situation in Northern Ireland, so that other resources can be deployed for the rest of the PSNI.

My Lords, in supporting the request made by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, we are well aware of the political situation in the Northern Ireland Executive. In view of that, can my noble friend talk to her friend the Secretary of State to ensure that ring-fenced funding for the PSNI is considered and that there is an uplift equivalent to that for police forces in England and Wales? I deplore the thuggery and the racist violence we have seen in Ballymena over the last two days, where there were attacks on the Police Service of Northern Ireland and on ethnic minorities. It was similar to what happened when I was Minister in DSD, back in 2009, when we had to take action to protect people. Will my noble friend join me in urging local political leaders in Ballymena, and further afield in Northern Ireland, to take and show the path of real leadership, and to seek not to explain the context for the violence but to urge the rioters to stop rioting and get off the streets? Will they ensure protection for local communities, including those from ethnic minorities, and for the police service in Ballymena?

I thank my noble friend for the question and the work that she and the noble Baroness have done in advocating consistently for funding for the PSNI. I will continue the conversation with the Secretary of State. The Government recognise the difficult financial position that the PSNI faces, which is why we are making sure that funding is available. On the substantive point of my noble friend’s question, the onus is on all of us, including Members of your Lordships’ House, to remember our tone and the responsibilities that we all have—that includes every single politician in Northern Ireland. I for one was delighted to see a joint statement from the Executive, signed by every political party, calling for quiet and peace and for people to come off the streets. This is not a time for politics; it is a time for peace and security on the streets of Northern Ireland. There is a responsibility on all of us to deliver it.

My Lords, I join others in commending the efforts and the bravery of the police and the other emergency services in dealing with the appalling situation of the last 48 hours. I unreservedly and unequivocally condemn the violence that has taken place in Ballymena. Whatever the underlying issues in Ballymena, nothing can ever justify the thuggery that has been perpetrated there. The noble Baroness has heard from different parts of this House that the chief constable has, for some time, been highlighting the major problems of funding. While I appreciate that the Government’s response is that, ultimately, a lot of this is a devolved issue, can the noble Baroness say what actions the Government are taking to help provide a strategic solution to the problem of the underresourcing of policing in Northern Ireland, beyond simply short-term mutual aid assistance?

The noble Lord is absolutely right that there is a responsibility on the British Government to work with police forces across the United Kingdom. That does not just include money, it is about sharing best practice and about funding that has been made available for public sector transformation works. Making sure that we are working hand in hand with the PSNI is incredibly important. The noble Lord will be as aware as I am of the ongoing comments by Jon Boutcher about the funding requirements he needs. I hope everybody is listening, but I promise the noble Lord that the Secretary of State is speaking to him regularly.

My Lords, first, I apologise for my inadvertent failure to declare an interest when asking a question a week ago of the Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, on the SDR. As regards this particular Question, my sympathies lie entirely with the noble Baronesses, Lady O’Loan and Lady Ritchie. I fully understand the delicacy of relationships when we are dealing with a devolved institution. Nevertheless, when the PSNI is confronted with at least two major issues that are not devolved issues but UK-wide issues—legacy and counterterrorism —it seems to me that the logic of our position should be that there may be some way of supplementing the normal grants, in view of the fact that these are UK-wide issues. I know it is not easy, but I would be obliged if my noble friend was to at least seek to inject that into the conversations with the Secretary of State.

My noble friend is absolutely right. His experiences of bringing people from across Northern Ireland together are one of the reasons we are now in the position we are with peace in Northern Ireland. We are talking about appalling disturbances in the UK but that are not of what happened during the Troubles. With regard to legacy, I do not doubt that there will be many opportunities to discuss in your Lordships’ House how we will fund legacy going forward, though funding is in place. With regard to funding for the additional national security impact, the Chancellor announced in the other place during the spending review that, over the course of the spending review, there will be an extra £113 million allocated to the PSNI. That is direct from the United Kingdom Government and in addition to the grant that it receives from the Northern Ireland Executive.

My Lords, noble Lords are right that there is no justification for the riots, and they are depressing to see. However, has the noble Baroness noted that commentators have, for some time, noted that local people have been raising immigration-related issues as a source of tensions—which is what the original, peaceful demonstration was about? What are the Government’s plans to tackle the specific underlying community issues that these horrible riots have thrown up?

My Lords, it is very important that we understand exactly what has happened in Northern Ireland. While I cannot comment on specific cases, the original vigil was not specifically about immigration but a much wider issue, about something that had happened. With regard to the issue of immigration, I have the statistics about the impact, or not, on this part of Northern Ireland. The reality is that what we have seen in the last 48 hours is members of the community, wherever they were born, caught up in violence and being scared. There is an onus on all of us to make sure that what we are talking about deals with some of the underlying issues, as exist across the United Kingdom, and with the specifics of rebuilding a community that has been touched by horrendous violence.