Renters' Rights Bill (Second sitting)

The Committee consisted of the following Members:

Chairs: † Sir Christopher Chope, Mr Clive Betts

† Amos, Mr Gideon (Taunton and Wellington) (LD)

† Blake, Rachel (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)

† Carling, Sam (North West Cambridgeshire) (Lab)

† Collier, Jacob (Burton and Uttoxeter) (Lab)

† Denyer, Carla (Bristol Central) (Green)

† Hazelgrove, Claire (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Lab)

† Khan, Naushabah (Gillingham and Rainham) (Lab)

† Kitchen, Gen (Wellingborough and Rushden) (Lab)

† McEvoy, Lola (Darlington) (Lab)

† Mayhew, Jerome (Broadland and Fakenham) (Con)

† Naismith, Connor (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)

† Pennycook, Matthew (Minister for Housing and Planning)

† Simmonds, David (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)

Slade, Vikki (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)

† Smith, Rebecca (South West Devon) (Con)

† Uppal, Harpreet (Huddersfield) (Lab)

† Wheeler, Michael (Worsley and Eccles) (Lab)

Sarah Thatcher, Simon Armitage, Leoni Kurt, Committee Clerks

† attended the Committee

Justin Bates KC, Landmark Chambers

Giles Peaker, Anthony Gold Solicitors

Liz Davies KC, Garden Court Chambers

Judicaelle Hammond, Director of Policy and Advice, Country Land and Business Association

Anna Evans, Director, Indigo House Group

Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed, Interim Deputy Chief Executive & Company Secretary, Unipol

Melanie Leech CBE, CEO, British Property Federation

Suzannah Young, Policy Leader, National Housing Federation

Timothy Douglas, Head of Policy and Campaigns, Propertymark

Cllr Adam Hug, Chair of the LGA Local Infrastructure and Net Zero Board, Local Government Association

Dr Henry Dawson, Senior Lecturer in Housing and Public Health, Cardiff Metropolitan University, Chartered Institute of Environmental Health

Anny Cullum, Political Officer, Acorn (the Union)

Matthew Pennycook, Minister of State for Housing and Planning

Public Bill Committee

[Sir Christopher Chope in the Chair]

Renters’ Rights Bill

14:00:00

Examination of Witnesses

14:02:00

Good afternoon and thank you for coming along. As this session has to end at 2.40 pm, with no Chair’s discretion in relation to that, I suggest that we get started straight away. May I ask you to introduce yourselves briefly? Justin Bates KC: I am Justin Bates, a barrister and King’s counsel at Landmark Chambers here in London, and I am the editor of the “Encyclopedia of Housing Law and Practice”. Giles Peaker: I am Giles Peaker, a solicitor at Anthony Gold Solicitors and a partner in the housing law team. Liz Davies KC: I am Liz Davies, a barrister and King’s counsel at Garden Court Chambers, and I write about homelessness and for Legal Action magazine on housing.

Thank you very much. David Simmonds will ask the first question.

Q49 I would like to ask you about the impact that the Bill will have on first-tier tribunals and whether they are ready for the potential consequences. Perhaps we can develop that to ask about the interactions with ombudsman services as well, with one of the issues being how renters whose rights are infringed, or where there is a dispute, can achieve reasonable restitution, whether that involves going to court, a tribunal or the ombudsman service. Justin Bates KC: Obviously, the best people to ask about the FTT’s resources and whether it is ready will be the FTT staff, the president and so on. I simply note that Parliament has given the first-tier tribunal a lot of new powers over the last few years, and I am sure it would welcome additional funding to enforce all these things. My impression, as a practising barrister, is that the FTT works better than the county court system; my experience is that it is generally faster and more responsive. But you are giving it a lot of new work to do, and I am sure it would be grateful for any money you can send its way. Giles Peaker: The ombudsman would have to answer the question on the ombudsman. My impression is that the ombudsman—the social housing ombudsman as it is—is currently receiving a lot of complaints and there is some impact on the timescale in which they deal with matters. Clearly, if there were an extension or a new ombudsman, the resourcing of that would have to be looked at. I do not think any of us could say that the county courts are not under strain at present—they are, across the board. How much of an increased workload there would actually be as a result of the Bill, though, is more of an open question. Liz Davies KC: I just add, in respect of the county court, that part of the problem with litigation at the moment is litigants in person. There are new rights in the Bill that tenants will want to rely on. Housing legal aid is in crisis, there are what are called housing deserts across the country, and frankly, it is more efficient for tenants to be able to receive early legal advice so that they know whether there is or is not a point to take to the county court. I suppose one message to you, although it is beyond your remit, would be to try to increase legal aid as well. It would make litigation more efficient.

Q Thank you. That is a really helpful point. Are the terms of the new possession grounds introduced by the Bill reasonable for both tenants and landlords? In summary, do you feel that the Bill gets the balance right? Liz Davies KC: I am concerned about mandatory grounds 1 and 1A. Clearly, they bring an end to no-reason evictions, with the end of section 21, but they are still no-fault evictions as far as the tenant is concerned. It is helpful that the period will be one year and that there is four months’ notice, rather than the two months’ notice in the previous version of this Bill, the Renters (Reform) Bill. But I am concerned that the balance is not right. Mainly, I am concerned about the idea of a court being faced with mandatory grounds when the tenant has done nothing wrong, and there may be incredibly compelling circumstances about the tenant but the court cannot look at them; it has absolutely no remit and no jurisdiction. So the tenant might say—I am sorry to have to say this—“Myself or a member of the household has a very serious terminal illness. To ask me to move within four weeks or two weeks, or what have you, is going to have an appalling effect on that.” They might say, “We have a very severe disability and so it will take us longer than other people to find somewhere to live.” My preference would be to make all grounds discretionary, because I think that does provide the balance. But even if Parliament were to reject that view, it seems to me that courts ought to have the opportunity, in exceptional circumstances, to look at the tenant circumstances and to either reject a possession order, or have the flexibility to make a possession order that is suspended for a certain period of time—postponed for a certain period of time. It seems to me wrong in principle that a court cannot consider any circumstances of the tenant, whatever they are. That is my concern on 1 and 1A, and I think Justin will speak about 6A. Justin Bates KC: Can I ask you to also look very carefully at ground 6A when it comes to scrutiny? Ground 6A is the new ground for possession, where the landlord needs possession, because they are on the banned landlord database or because they are operating an overcrowded house in multiple occupation—the landlord is effectively a criminal landlord and needs possession to deal with the consequences of their criminality. Presently, that is a mandatory ground for possession. I understand why, because I can see that there is a difficulty with one arm of the state saying, “You are breaking the law and you will keep breaking the law if we don’t act, and we won’t allow you to get people out.” Can I flag two concerns? First, there is a concern among those in frontline tenant services that it will act as a disincentive to people reporting their rogue landlords, because if you report your rogue landlord to the local authority and it then puts them on the banning order list, you face a mandatory ground for possession. Secondly, it strikes me as odd that a tenant who has done nothing wrong—save had the misfortune to have a criminal landlord—is required to move with no compensation and no provision of suitable alternative accommodation and so on. I can understand why we need 6A. I understand that we do not want to leave people committing crimes because a judge will not give a possession order, but it strikes me that you could look at some sort of compensation scheme. If you were minded to do so, the model is section 34 of the Housing Act 2004, which already gives the tribunal the power to order compensation when people have to leave because of prohibition orders. You could steal lots of the language from section 34, put it into ground 6A, and you would have much less scope for the unfairness that seems to me to be evident. Giles Peaker: On the broader question of whether a balance is struck, I think it is a political decision as to where the balance falls, but broadly there is one. I do have specific concerns about 1 and 1A, as well as those raised by Liz, which are in terms of the evidencing of a mandatory ground. If the ground is the landlord wants to sell, or the landlord wants to move in or move in a family member, what standard of evidence is required for them to demonstrate that? In terms of the current wording, it would probably be enough to simply express an intention to do so. My sense is that there needs to be at least a level of formality—a signed declaration of truth on a statement or a particulars claim signed by the landlord—in terms of bringing possession proceedings on the back of that. But there is also what follows on from that, and I think this issue has come up in Scotland, where there is a similar sort of provision. If a landlord re-lets a property within the 12 months proposed, the potential enforcement is great: it is a criminal breach, with a prospective civil penalty, and a prospective rent repayment order application by the former tenants. That is all great. The question is how you get from the possession order being made to action on the breach. As it stands, it appears that the only way in which that could possibly happen is if the ex-tenants realise that the property has been re-let—heaven knows how, and heaven knows where they will be in the country by that point—and then notify the local authority, which can take enforcement action. It strikes me that there should be some kind of recording that that ground has been used—a landlord database might be a place for that. The local authority can be aware that that ground has been used, and if it becomes aware of a re-letting, the full enforcement apparatus can kick in.

Q Thank you all for coming to give us your expert opinion. I have two questions, one specific and one general. First, to follow up on grounds 1 and 1A, I understand the general push for all grounds to be discretionary, but we took a view that these should be mandatory, in terms of getting that balance right. But I very much hear the points being made about evidential requirements. Could I ask you to draw out a bit further how you expect this to work? In a sense, when we talk about discretionary grounds, we are always told, “Let’s trust judges”—that was certainly the case with the previous Bill. In a sense, what we intend to do here is trust judges’ judgment on whether those grounds have been used appropriately, and we would expect the type of evidence that they look at to include things like a letter instructing solicitors or an affidavit. But do you not expect the courts to operate in that way on the basis of the Bill? Do you expect them to act in a more light-touch way, as you have suggested? It is not usual practice for Governments to force the courts to consider certain types of evidence, and if that is the case—if you accept that—where do we go to try to influence the courts to look at certain categories of evidence, to ensure that these grounds are being used appropriately? Giles Peaker: In terms of how you can specify things, to some degree, it is a question of wording. Grounds 1 and 1A are expressed as an intention, and if the intention is there, the ground is made out. If a landlord has written to the court to say, “I intend to sell”, it seems quite difficult for the court to go behind that, unless the tenant has evidence to the contrary. So partly it is around language. Intention—settled intention—needs looking at. But with different wording, a different evidential requirement may well follow—so potentially, as you say, the landlord would have to evidence engagement with an estate agent or a solicitor on a sale, or would need evidence from the relative who was intending to move in, to the same effect.

Q Would you accept that this is less of a problem if we are confident that the 12-month no re-let period is enforceable? Then, in a sense, there is a serious disincentive for landlords to act spuriously. Giles Peaker: Yes, hence my talking earlier about the reason to fill in the gap between the notice seeking possession or the court order, and potential enforcement, which is a bit of a lacuna at the moment.

Q That is very helpful. My second question is more general, which will give each of you the chance to range a bit more freely. I know that you were engaged with the previous Bill, so you will know the debates that took place. It was very much our intention with this Bill to address the various deficiencies, omissions and, critically, the loopholes that existed. It would be good to get your views on whether you think we have broadly done that, and if not, whether there are any remaining loopholes in the Bill that you can see more disreputable landlords trying to exploit. Justin Bates KC: I will go first, because this is what we spend our time talking about. Clause 30 is wholly defective and should not be allowed to stay in this form after the Bill Committee. It is a loophole. Clause 30 presently says that something will not be an assured tenancy under your new regime if it is for a tenancy of more than seven years. So I will grant you a tenancy of seven years and one day, and I will reserve to myself, as landlord, a landlord-only right to break, exercisable after six months on two months’ rolling notice. There you go: I have just recreated section 21 and there is nothing you can do about it. You need to look at clause 30 very carefully. The reason it is in there is to fix a different problem. It is there because certain shared ownership leases and certain long leases have accidentally ended up being treated as assured shorthold tenancies, so that is what you are trying to close. The better way to solve that problem is to amend schedule 1 to the Housing Act 1988, which is the main Act you are grappling with, to say that shared ownership leases cannot be assured tenancies, and that long leases for terms of more than 21 years—which is the normal definition of a long lease—cannot be assured tenancies. And then take clause 30 out, because what will happen—as sure as night follows day, and as the entire history of housing law since 1915 shows you—is that landlords will offer seven years plus a day with a landlord-only break, because this is not an area where there is equal bargaining power. It will be, “Take it or leave it, and I’ve just brought section 21 back in through the back door.” So please look very carefully at clause 30.

Q Any more for any more? Liz Davies KC: I have two points. It is excellent that you have prevented bidding wars. Clause 4, I think, is about advance rent, and we were just discussing this outside. You cannot prevent bidding wars without also having a limit on advance rent of one month, because otherwise, you have outlawed bidding wars but the landlord will then be happily prepared to let to the tenant who is robust enough to be able to offer six months’ rent in advance, rather than one month’s rent. You get back to tenants’ financial circumstances in bidding—so that point is about advance rent. The other point is smaller and more technical, and is on the subject of homelessness. Because you are taking out assured shorthold tenancies from the homelessness regime, which allows local authorities to find people private rented sector tenancies, and you have done a lot of drafting amendments to take out the words “assured shorthold”, you have also taken out a mechanism in the Housing Act 1996 that currently allows a homeless family—where they are given an assured shorthold tenancy and that ends within two years—to reapply as homeless and where they do not have to show a priority need. It helps to deal with the revolving door of homelessness, potentially in the private rented sector. You have abolished that—I imagine inadvertently, because you are taking out the words relating to assured shortholds. However, I would suggest that you try to get that back in, so that in the more unusual cases—once this Bill has gone through—if a homeless person is given an assured tenancy in the private rented sector and it comes to an end within two years, they will be able to come back to the homelessness authority. It is section 195A of the Housing Act 1996.

Q You said earlier that the first-tier tribunal is working better, but did you really answer the question of whether you feel the Bill will increase pressure on the tribunal and the courts, and whether they are ready for it? Have you seen any evidence of an increase in funding, given this impending legislation? Justin Bates KC: I want to be careful not to speak for the first-tier tribunal judges. Parliament has provided additional funding for the FTT in anticipation, not of this Bill, but of other areas. Those of you who worked on the Building Safety Act 2022 will know that you gave new powers to the FTT over unsafe buildings. Funding came along with that, because new building safety judges have been appointed. For obvious reasons, I am not privy to all the spending decisions, but as a regular attendee of the tribunal, I can see that money must have been provided. Whether you provide more money for this Bill is, frankly, miles above my pay grade. On the increased workload, it is very difficult to say. It is plausible that there may not be that much of an increase in workload, because people can still agree what the new rent will be. If they agree it, there is no need to go anywhere near the tribunal. If I were pushed, my informed guess would be that there will be an increase in the first few years, because there always is whenever the law changes, and that it will settle down after a while, but I cannot properly comment on the minutiae of how you fund the FTT.

Q Just to follow up on that point, none of us knows what the increase in tribunal work will be, but there will be an active incentive not to agree a rent increase because you have your rent, it is going to go up, there is the delay of the process, and then at the end, the worst that can happen is that you get the rent increase that you were going to get anyway. Why would not tenants always, as a matter of course, put off the evil hour? They would get six, eight, 12 or 15 months free. Justin Bates KC: But what I am saying is that I do not know whether it will be that long. There is an assumption in the questions, which may or may not be correct, that all these cases will need a hearing. Most of the section 13 cases that the tribunal already deals with are done on the papers. It rattles through 10 of them a day because, unless there is something specific about the property—unless you need to see it to understand the condition of disrepair, or whatever—there is no reason why you cannot do rent-based determinations on the basis of written materials: the Rightmove print-offs, the price and so on.

Q But even on that basis, you are loading on to the landlord a requirement to create the papers and a period in which the tenant has to respond —I am guessing 14 or 28 days, but we do not know yet. Then there is a period of consideration. What is it currently? Even if it is dealt with on the papers, what is an average period of deliberation? Justin Bates KC: The tribunal’s KPI internal target is all decisions within six weeks.

Q But what it is actually doing? Justin Bates KC: It broadly keeps to that. The FTT is pretty good at keeping to its standards. You can safely assume that we are looking at three months. Those are the figures you are throwing at me, and I can see that being realistic.

Q Okay, so three months of avoiding a 20% rent increase. Everyone will do it, will they not? Why would they not? Justin Bates KC: I do not know, is the answer. That is not a cop-out; it is recognising the limits of what lawyers should safely talk about.

Q Okay, I accept that answer. Am I right in thinking that there are about 4.6 million private tenancies out there? Justin Bates KC: Broadly, yes.

Q So if everyone does it, that is quite a lot of extra work. Even if 25% do it, it is 1 million papers-only cases a year. Justin Bates KC: Yes. Liz Davies KC: Of those where the landlord increases the rent. You are assuming an annual increase.

Q Just on that, every landlord—or the vast majority of landlords—increases the rent annually to take account of inflation and other issues. Is that not right? Justin Bates KC: There is a famous housing benefit case, which the Commission on Social Security likes to remind us of, that says that Rachman is not the only model of landlord. It is entirely possible not to do that, or to agree sub-ones. Remember that the private rented sector is so difficult to pin down as a single, homogeneous beast. A landlord who lets to someone who is predominantly reliant on welfare benefits to pay their rent will not hike it beyond the inflation rate of the benefit, because all they would be doing is creating a situation in which the tenant cannot pay. I do not think you are wrong to raise that spectre; I just struggle with how we identify how likely that is to play out, and what the numbers will be in any given period. I do not think, for my part, that we can safely assume that every landlord will go as high as humanly possible, or that everyone will be defended, but on your broad point that there will be a delay, yes, that must be right.

Q I want to ask about condition and the decent homes standard. Will you elaborate on how you think that bringing the decent homes standard into the private rented sector can most effectively be enforced? What might you anticipate going forward from the way that the Bill is drafted? Giles Peaker: What is envisaged is it being enforced by local authorities, and the powers of the local authorities appear to be great. The question, as with existing powers for local authority housing enforcement, is the very variable performance—or the extremely variable performance—between local authorities. Whether one wants to impose a duty on local authorities, rather than a power, would be an interesting question; I strongly suspect that funding demands would follow on from that. But the powers are there and could be very effective; it is a question of the will to utilise them. We do not yet know what the contents of the proposed decent homes standard will be. It would be good to see a unified standard across social and private tenancies—there is no reason why there should be any distinction between the two kinds of accommodation. The social housing side, as I understand it, will be enforced by the social housing regulator, which is a slightly different situation, but the same standard would apply. Tenants, as it stands, will not be able to enforce the specific standard except by complaint to the local authority.

Q You rightly highlighted that tenants will rely on local authorities to pursue enforcement and that there is a very variable standard among local authorities for doing so, although you mentioned that tenants would not be able to take enforcement action themselves. You have alluded to a possible duty—that is a question that you have thrown out there—but what other alternatives might there be? Giles Peaker: Tenants will have their existing rights under the Homes (Fitness for Human Habitation) Act 2019 amendments to the Landlord and Tenant Act 1985. Quite how far that will overlap with the decent homes standard—well, we will have to see what is in the decent homes standard. There will certainly be some degree of overlap, I imagine, through the presence of housing, health and safety rating system hazards, so there would still be a route for tenants to take action on specific hazards, but it will not necessarily enforce decent homes, full stop. Justin Bates KC: For my part, I think that by far the better tenant-empowerment repairing provisions of this legislation are the extension of Awaab’s law to the private sector. If you get the details of secondary legislation right, that could be a real game changer, because that will be enforceable by tenants through private law proceedings in the county court. If you set sufficiently robust—fair, but robust—timescales, you will do a lot of lawyers out of work, which would be an excellent thing. Look at that.

This is my first time on a Public Bill Committee, Sir Christopher, so I might make a mistake with process. May I briefly point Jerome at the answers provided in written evidence and in earlier verbal evidence, which I felt answered the question already? In terms of, “Surely, won’t all tenants do it?”, I think we heard a clear answer that, for the vast majority of the population, anything to do with courts is a terrifying and bureaucratically faffy process that they will not want to engage with. On “Won’t landlords just max it out”—

Order. I am going to stop you there, because this is an opportunity for Committee members to ask questions of the people who have come along as witnesses. We have limited time and once we start opening up a debate with other Committee members, it will be at the expense of being able to hear what we hope is, and is likely to be, very valuable evidence. If you have a question for any of the members of the panel, I shall be happy to take it, but if not, I suggest that you have your arguments with other Members when we get into full line-by-line consideration, when there will be plenty of opportunity for you to intervene on another Member with whom you disagree.

Q I would like to ask the panel for their views on issues around insurance. You can get different kinds of landlord insurance; some are optional and some are not. Some provide you with a guarantee to pay the rent if the tenant fails to pay in time. Some insure against damage caused to your property by a tenant while they are occupying it. Others may be insurances that are required as a condition of a mortgage, such as buildings insurance. There may also be contents insurance, which is normal but not strictly legally required. I know there is some pressure around issues such as tenants with pets and making sure that they have a right to occupy. A landlord may discover that the cost of insurance is significantly higher because of the pet or because of some other circumstance relating to the tenant —for example, they might have a poor credit history and are therefore not insurable for failing to pay the rent via the landlord’s normal insurance company. I am interested in how you see the Bill dealing with that issue and ensuring that tenants are not effectively barred from applying to rent particular properties because of those insurance issues and also that landlords do not find that the insurance they must have is so expensive as to effectively make their business as a landlord impossible. Giles Peaker: My understanding was that the tenant could be required to have pet insurance. It is a permitted payment. Liz Davies KC: Or the landlord has the insurance and the tenant refunds them. You have made a broader point, but just looking at clause 11 on pet insurance, the tenant will refund the landlord, so it becomes an exempted permitted payment under the Tenant Fees Act 2019. On the cost of insurance, I am sorry, but that is certainly beyond my legal expertise. Giles Peaker: In terms of that situation, it is hard to see an impact on building or contents insurance. For insurance for unpaid rent, you would have to ask the insurers, but my immediate sense would be to ask why it would be different from now, when the tenant will face possession proceedings for rent arrears if the rent is not paid. But that would have to be one for the insurers.

Q The question is about the impact on supply. A prospective landlord may decide from the outset to insure their rental income from the property, but after the required credit check on a tenant, the insurer may say, “We won’t insure this tenant. If you put that person in the property, we won’t cover it”—for instance, if they had a bad credit history. At the moment, the tenant and landlord can negotiate a higher deposit or a similar way to deal with that, but if that is precluded and you cannot go for a higher deposit or rent in advance or different arrangements fixed in the contracts of guarantors, the result may be that that person cannot rent a property because they cannot achieve the relevant credit check. I am keen to ensure that people who are in that situation—I have had constituency examples—do not find themselves effectively excluded from the private rented sector because they become uninsurable as tenants. Giles Peaker: Deposits are already capped. Justin Bates KC: You cannot do it through deposits, because paragraph 2 of schedule 1 to the Tenant Fees Act 2019 will stop you doing that. You can presently do it through rent in advance, because the Bill does not prevent that, although I query whether it should. You could not do it by increasing the rent above market value, but you cannot do that anyway because section 13 as it stands would kick in. Liz Davies KC: Is Giles’s point not right that this is a current problem in any event? Sorry to be asking you questions, but he is suggesting that it is alleviated because of the mechanism of section 21.

Q What I am hearing from constituents affected by it is that rent in advance is the method by which they get around this, as well as guarantors potentially, but if the Bill removes that scope, then the one route they have to negotiate—because of their bad credit history—is effectively removed and they are potentially excluded from that market. I am just trying to understand whether this is genuinely a problem. Liz Davies KC: So it is the rent-in-advance point. We would have to look at what the Bill says about guarantors. I am sure the Minister knows, but that would be the answer—something around advance rent or guarantors. It negates the point earlier, I accept that. This needs some thought.

Q I want to interrogate further what opportunities you see the landlord database providing for private renters and good landlords as a result of the Bill. Your area of expertise is vast and it is a joy to listen to you contribute, so I would like you to elaborate on any positive outcomes you think could come from the Bill—we want to make sure those can happen. Liz Davies KC: The fact that landlords are required to be registered will raise the bar for good landlords. We do not yet know what information should be on the database. I cannot remember whether it is in the Bill or the explanatory notes, but it is assumed that any enforcement action or rent repayment orders they have had to make—anything that affects their quality as a landlord—will be there. That must raise the bar and set a minimum standard for landlords, which we currently do not have. Tenants, frequently those at the bottom of the market, are then subject to the consequences and disadvantages of that, so having that bar is really important. The other thing is that making the information, when we know what it is, publicly available is extremely important because it holds landlords to account. Finally, it also affects the local authority’s ability to bring the various enforcement measures they have under both the Housing Act 2004 and the Bill. Justin Bates KC: I did not hear Ben Beadle’s evidence this morning, but if you get the right details on the database—so that it is a publicly searchable database that shows you whether your landlord has done anything in a list of prohibited things and so that it has details about the safety of the building, for example whether the gas safety certificate has been uploaded or not—I would have thought that he and the NRLA would have been crying out for something like the landlord database. It gives them what they have always wanted: a way of differentiating the good landlord from the bad landlord and a simple way for a tenant to identify the good landlord and the bad landlord. If I put your name in and it comes up on the database that you are subject to a banning order, I probably should not rent from you. If I put the property address in and discover a prohibition order—those are registered on the database—I probably should not live there. That is what you should be able to do if you can get the database to work properly. The way you have done it, for obvious reasons, it is all at the level of principle. The critical information is what you will do in secondary legislation about what is accessible. But if you get the database right, you go a really long way towards helping tenants to make informed decisions and helping good landlords to drive bad landlords out.

We have time for one quick question, if anyone has one.

Q We have the decent homes standard for social housing, and the Bill would introduce it for private housing. That seems to me to leave Ministry of Defence housing in the middle. Can you think of any other categories of housing that would not be covered by the decent homes standard? Liz Davies KC: Currently, Home Office accommodation for asylum seekers is not in the Bill. I am pretty sure, off the top of my head, that temporary accommodation under homelessness is, but if I am wrong about that—Justin and Giles are nodding, so it is. Temporary accommodation for asylum seekers should be there; we know that has problems with conditions. I am sorry—I am embarrassed about this—but I should have said right at the beginning that I have acted as a consultant for the Renters’ Reform Coalition. I am not here today in that capacity, but I need to put that on the record. Justin Bates KC: I would need to really check the detail, but housing provided by local social services authorities—Children Act 1989 accommodation rather than Housing Act accommodation—may not be covered. That might be another area of exemption. But the big one will be Crown properties: MOD, Home Office and so on. If you want to bring them in, you will need to expressly say so because, as I am sure you all know, the rule is that it does not bind the Crown unless you expressly say so.

That brings to an end this evidence session. I thank the witnesses for their contributions. Examination of Witness Judicaelle Hammond gave evidence.

14:39:00

Welcome; please introduce yourself. Judicaelle Hammond: I am Judicaelle Hammond, director of policy and advice at the Country Land and Business Association. We represent 26,000 members in England and Wales who own and run land-based properties. We estimate that our members account for about a third of properties in the rural private rented sector.

Q Your organisation previously warned that young people could be forced out of rural communities due to a lack of affordable and available homes. How do you feel this Bill will affect that situation? Judicaelle Hammond: Unfortunately I do not think the Bill is going to make it much better in the sense that the main issue is the availability of housing full stop, and particularly the availability of affordable housing. Our members are doing a great deal already to provide that. We reckon that 23% of our members’ properties are let out at less than 80% of market rates, but at the end of the day there probably is not enough to go round and therefore we see the changes to the planning sector as the key. What the Bill might do, particularly with the demise of section 21, is to make it more difficult for people to enter or want to stay in the private rented sector, which is an issue. Again, as I said, it is by no means the only issue. I think the real key is supply.

Q Thank you very much indeed; that is helpfully clear on the point about supply. In written evidence you have warned that some proposals to reform the private rented sector could risk overcorrecting in favour of tenants. Do you still have those concerns about the Bill in its current form? Judicaelle Hammond: Yes. The main issue is the ability of the courts to deal with the extra cases that might be coming their way. One of the solutions, perhaps, is to look at some of the mandatory grounds and make them paper-based. That might improve things. In terms of section 21, I should make it clear that among our membership the average time that the tenancy lasts is 7.5 years, which is nearly twice as long as the national average. Our members are responsible landlords; many of them will have had tenants who have been there for decades. We are not in the business of evictions or fast turnaround. We are not using section 21 very much, but when it has been used—it has included, for example, issues about antisocial behaviours—we have had some horror stories of members waiting for 12 to 18 months to get their properties back. Without section 21, in the courts I think it takes at the moment 24 weeks from application for possession to actual possession, and some members are taking far longer than that with county courts that have closed. Digitisation might be a good thing, but how long will that take? There is an issue for us about reducing, unwittingly perhaps, the supply of private rented sector properties in rural areas as a result of the Bill.

Q I have one final question. I would like to explore the specifically rural and agricultural aspect of this. I know it is common in rural areas for properties to have things like agricultural worker conditions on their occupation and for properties to be provided with a licence to occupy rather than through a tenancy in the traditional sense, because the accommodation is connected with the work that the person does at that specific location. What is your view of how the Bill will impact or deal with those types of situations? Judicaelle Hammond: We are grateful to the Government for the new ground 5A, which deals with incoming agricultural workers. That will help—no question about that. And we are grateful for the new ground 5C, which is a ground to get property back because a job has ended, where the property was limited to the employment. There are a couple of other grounds that are not covered at the moment and would be needed for rural businesses. The vast majority of rural businesses are not linked to farming or agriculture, but there might still be times when—we hear this from our members all the time—the provision of accommodation is necessary to attract or retain people, particularly when there is nothing else around. They could be in a really remote rural area or it could be because, for example, the person in that job needs to be on call, which would apply to security, caretakers or vets. Or it could be for people working antisocial hours in hospitality, for example, or at a wedding venue, where there is no longer public transport available at the time they are meant to finish or they need to start really early to set up before the wave of tourists come—and so on. Increasing and expanding ground 5A to include service occupancies in very defined circumstances would be really helpful. To avoid abuse, there are definitions of what that could cover in other legislation that could be referred to. That is the main ground. The second ground that is needed for agricultural workers is a new ground for what is known as suitable alternative accommodation. Some categories of agricultural workers have protected tenancies under existing legislation—the Rent (Agriculture) Act 1976—and assured agricultural occupants are also protected under the Housing Act 1988. For example, you might have a retired dairyman or indeed their widow who is still in the main dairy. You need to recruit somebody to replace that dairyman. If you have more than one property, it would be useful to have a ground to get it back, in order to then move the retired dairyman or the widow in that property. Obviously, if you have only one property, it is game over, but in the case that you have a small portfolio, it would be really useful to have that, because you have a legal obligation to rehome that person but you need the property in which they currently are.

Q In response to the previous Government’s White Paper, “A fairer private rented sector”, you questioned whether we should look to introduce a decent homes standard to the private rented sector. Is that still your view and, if so, could you elaborate on why? Judicaelle Hammond: Yes, sure. I think it needs updating because it was designed for problems in the social sector. It might or might not be applicable to the private rented sector. It also does not deal very well with older properties, which is the vast bulk of what our members have. To judge the private rented sector against the decent homes standard as it currently is would be, I think, misleading, and it would have all sorts of unintended consequences. For example, in small cottages in rural areas, there are typically very small kitchens and so on. They would not necessarily fit, and it would destroy the character if you were to change that—

Q Sorry to pull you up, but we have not consulted on it yet. We have not told you what it consists of yet; you are pre-empting it. Is it the principle? Judicaelle Hammond: No, it is not the principle. The issue at the moment is that what we have got, which is the decent homes standard that applies to the social sector, would not work in the private rented sector in the rural context. The other thing that we do have, however, is the housing health and safety rating system and, indeed, the minimum energy efficiency standards. We reckon that that probably covers the ground, but it absolutely needs to be enforced. I think you have already got levers there. That is what we would say.

Thank you.

Q You mentioned the planning system earlier. Do you see any risk, because of the perceived unattractiveness of the new system, that there will be an increase in short-term holiday letting? The Liberal Democrats want to see the use class brought forward for holiday lets. Would you support that in terms of controlling it in rural areas, so that councils and communities can control the amount of Airbnb-type short-term holiday lets in their areas? Judicaelle Hammond: We recognise that is an issue in some areas of the country that are honeypots. If the proposals that were consulted on are implemented effectively, we see a need for them. On your question about whether some properties would become holiday lets, I think if you had asked me a year ago, I might have said yes. There are other pressures on the holiday let market that make this increasingly unlikely. We hear from members that they are planning on selling full stop, which would probably be selling to people who want to be on the housing ladder rather than to people who want to take over their business of being private rented sector housing providers. That is a real issue and concern for us.

Q Building on that, we heard from a few of the witnesses this morning that one of the key concerns of the private rented sector is the delay associated with the recovery of property through the Courts and Tribunals Service. A moment ago, you said that some of your members are waiting 12 to 18 months, during which time they do not get any rent and it is an asset that is not working for them. I would like to drill into that a little further to understand fully why it is that landowners are already leaving the market and why that might happen in the future, and what impact you assess that will have on future rents. On one side of the argument you could say, “Rents will go up as supply decreases.” Do you think that will be an unintended consequence of the proposed legislation? On the other side, which I invite you also to consider, is the question of whether, if you increase foregone earnings—that is, increase the losses associated with being a tenant—because the time required by court processes will be extended because of increased demand, that increased loss will filter into increased rents in the long run. Judicaelle Hammond: I think the answer to both of your questions is that there is a risk. If demand and supply work in the way they are intended to, unless you increase the supply there is a risk that the rent would go up—to do exactly the two things you suggested. What we see is broader than just renters’ rights reform, though: we are seeing, for example, the move towards minimum energy efficiency standards, and I totally understand why that is needed. At the same time, it is quite difficult for landlords to deal with some of the costs. Again, we are mostly talking about older properties in rural areas. The cost of maintenance and improvement, particularly since the Ukraine war and the surge in the cost of building materials, has not come down. It has stopped growing at the same rate, but the prices have not come down to where they were pre-pandemic, pre-Ukraine. As a result of that, you will first have to wait for a void in your properties, in all likelihood, in order to do the kinds of work that will be needed. Those voids do not happen very often. Secondly, you need to get your hands on tradespeople, who might actually prefer to stick to their local areas, because they are within 30 minutes’ driving time and not an hour and a half’s driving time. That is something else that we hear quite a bit about. All that is bringing pressure on to the private tenanted sector.

Q I am straying into my memory now, but I think the financial exemption was set at £9,000 for the costs of an upgrade, above which you are exempted as a landlord. Judicaelle Hammond: It was proposed to be £10,000 in the last consultation. It is every five years.

Q What has happened with that? If the level is £10,000, does that feel about right to you? Should it be higher or lower, or should there be an improvement in another way? Judicaelle Hammond: I am afraid that the answer, which is probably for another day, is that it depends. For example, it depends where you are in the country and what kind of rents you are going to be able to charge. I was talking to a member this morning who said, “There is no way I can put the rents up. The people who are paying for it will not be able to cope with an increase in order to recoup that.” We need to look at that carefully and have either a ramp-up system or a different system for exemption, or indeed better or more suitable technology, which might well be coming. My plea on that would be: let us use the time we have before the standards are tightened to improve things like the energy performance certificate methodology and look at alternative technologies as well.

Q I want to come back to what the Minister said about condition and the introduction of the decent homes standard into the private rented sector. I want to understand this. I think you were saying there is an in-principle objection to the standard but a recognition that the actual standard has not been published. At the moment, the position you would take is to rely on the housing health and safety rating system and the homes fit for human habitation provision. My experience, and I am sure that of many representatives, is that it is difficult to drive up the quality of homes with the HHSRS due to how long it takes to force landlords to acknowledge where they are failing on a particular hazard. Could you elaborate on why you think relying on HHSRS, or even the homes fit for human habitation provision, would be more effective than the decent homes standard both for consumers—tenants—and for landlords in terms of the condition of their assets? Judicaelle Hammond: It is a question of finding ways quickly to improve things, and using the current regulations. Again, I am not here to ask you questions, but I am really curious about the barriers that you see. If this was enforced properly, you would find ways of doing it. For us, it is a question of asking, “Well, there is legislation already. Why don’t we use it?” On the decent homes standard, it is less an objection in principle. It is more about taking what we have at the moment and applying it without thought or adaptation to the private rented sector, where some of the conditions might be different. For example—going back to my argument about the availability of trades, maintenance staff, and so on—if you have a large portfolio, that might be doable, but if you do not, you really are in a different position.

Q Let us take heating—

Order. I am going to bring in Jacob Collier because we are running out of time.

Q You have spoken about your members being responsible landlords, and a previous witness said the Bill would raise the bar for good landlords. What are your thoughts on the national landlord database and how that will raise the standards? Judicaelle Hammond: It might help. We see that database as a way of increasing transparency for both tenants and landlords. Our plea would be: let us do it effectively, and let us ensure that we have an IT system that works and is not basically a massive white elephant. An awful lot of that data is already available in other places. Can that system be built using the available data, rather than having a completely different program that requires quite a lot of time and money?

Rachel, you have half a minute for a quick question.

Q Let us take heating as a hazard. What do you think the effective enforcement of heating, or cold, as a hazard would be? Judicaelle Hammond: Sorry, I really cannot give you a proper answer because it would depend on the circumstances.

Thank you, everybody. Thank you for coming along and giving us a bit of your experience and knowledge. We will move on to the next panel. Examination of Witness Anna Evans gave evidence.

14:59:00

Straighten your ties, because we are now going to be on Zoom. We have until 3.20 pm. Please can you introduce yourself? Anna Evans: I am Anna Evans, director of Indigo House. We are a housing consultancy based in Scotland, but we cover the UK in terms of affordable housing research and consultancy.

Q Particularly given your experience in Scotland, it is valuable to have you as a witness. Your organisation talks about wanting to improve the effectiveness and affordability of the housing market. To what extent do you think the Bill will contribute to achieving those goals? Anna Evans: I am here as an expert on the Scottish private rented tenancy and the reforms that have happened in Scotland, so I do not think I could necessarily answer the question about what the Bill could do. So far, the legislation in Scotland, through the private residential tenancy, has failed to address anything on affordability. It brought in rent adjudication and what were called rent pressure zones, which local authorities had the power to determine. Those failed due to a lack of data, and the rent adjudication system has been effective for only about 230 tenants out of the 300,000-odd households in the private rented sector. The Scottish Government are looking to address that through the current Housing (Scotland) Bill, rent regulation and rent control, but to date, the legislation has done nothing for affordability.

Q That is enormously helpful, because clearly, the Bill is very similar to the legislative underpinning of what is going on in Scotland. We are also interested in how it will impact on regeneration projects and the ambition to deliver more housing—we know, for example, that the build-to-rent sector is interested in that. So we are interested in your perspective on how the Bill will impact the ability to deliver regeneration projects, or how the similar situation in Scotland has done so. Anna Evans: We have not examined that particular question, but in terms of supply, new build in the private rented sector in Scotland has probably stabilised rather than grown. Most of the growth in the private rented sector has been through the existing stock, and of course, there is growth in purpose-built student accommodation. There has not been a huge amount of new build and regeneration in the private rented sector, certainly over the last five years, but I do not think you could necessarily attribute that lack of growth solely to new tenancy. A huge number of other things have been happening in regulation in Scotland, and there is obviously the wider tax regime, too.

Q Final question: what are the main consequences you expect from the Bill for residential landlords and tenants in the private rented sector? Anna Evans: For tenants, the positives are a new foundation of rights and there should be more legal security. Tenants in Scotland enjoy open-ended tenancy and specific grounds for eviction, and there are longer notice periods. It is gradually moving to more of a contractual, rather than a subjective, relationship. I should say, though, that there are very considerable differences in satisfaction between the general population of private rented tenants and the lower end, where lower income tenants or those who are more vulnerable are still disadvantaged. That is because of the overriding demand-supply imbalance. There is a fear among tenants about challenging, if they know that there are very few affordable alternatives on the market. For landlords, I would say that they are generally settled with the private residential tenancy now—it has been in place for over five years, and they can see the consistency in practice and greater clarity in rights and responsibilities. Clearly, it is less flexible, but the difficulties that landlords have in Scotland are to do with subsequent legislation, and in particular, rent control.

Q Perhaps I can just check this, because I am not entirely clear: did your organisation author the Nationwide Foundation report? Anna Evans: Yes.

Q So I think it would be worth teasing something out, because it was an interesting report. To touch on what you just said, I took from the report that the tenancy reform in Scotland seven years ago had a number of benefits for tenants, but it has not adversely affected landlords. As you say, the system has bedded in and they have adapted to it. The shadow Minister said that this is largely the same set of reforms that happened in Scotland, so could I encourage you to touch on any differences between the approach we are taking in this Bill and the Scottish experience? Could you then perhaps touch a bit more on the specific impact of the rent control measures in Scotland—which we are not proposing—on that supply issue? I recognise that there is a wider supply question about the housing market in Scotland more generally, but what did your research suggest was the impact of the rent control measures that were introduced in Scotland? Anna Evans: I will take the rent control issue first. This was nothing to do with private residential tenancy; it was the result of emergency legislation on the cost of living, which was brought in in 2021-22. That brought in a rent increase freeze and then rent increase caps. If we look at the data following that on rent increases, there are arguments around this, but basically average rent increases have not frozen or been curtailed. Some would certainly argue that rent increases in Scotland have been greater than what you could see across the UK. We should remember—I was looking at evidence on this earlier—that landlords, certainly in Scotland, usually increase rents at a change of tenancy, not on an annual basis. What happened when rent control came in, with a range of other pieces of legislation and regulation, was that it became more of a hostile environment—that is what landlords are saying—and so as a result, they tended to hike rents up more at a change of tenancy. But we have found that most landlords want good, stable tenants for a long time. Most actually do not increase rents during a tenancy, but only take the opportunity to increase rents at a change of tenancy, and because of the environment and the hostility that they were feeling, they thought they had better increase rents at change of tenancy. Does that answer your question on rent control?

Yes, that is very useful. Thank you. Anna Evans: In terms of the differences between your Bill and the private residential tenancy, I have to confess that I am not an expert on your Bill, so I cannot answer that in detail, but I can say that the PRT is an open-ended tenancy. It has no fixed-term period. There is the eradication of eviction with no grounds. Eviction proceedings are simplified to 18 statutory grounds and there has to be a reason—what are the grounds for eviction? There are extended notice periods and also a phased implementation. I think that is a key point. A lesson that the current Housing (Scotland) Bill is looking at is whether short assured and assured tenancies should actually just be terminated now because there has been long enough. There is still a good proportion of assured tenancies in existence—we estimate probably about 20%. Short assured tenancies are certainly less secure, so one lesson would be that if you are changing, do not do it over seven years; do not delay.

Q Since you are an expert on the Scottish system, I will make use of your expertise; I want to ask more about rent controls. In my understanding, when the Scottish Government initially brought in rent controls in tenancy, that was because that was all they had the power to do at the time—they brought it in using existing legislation, initially during the cost of living crisis triggered by the pandemic—and ultimately, that they might do something different. You mentioned the Bill going through at the moment. In your view, is there an inherent problem with rent controls, or could the problems that you described be remedied by having some kind of controls between, as well as within, tenancies? Anna Evans: I think what we have concluded from all of the evidence is that the rent control has to be very carefully designed to avoid unintended consequences. It is above my pay grade to say what that design might be, but there could be a range of ways in which landlords try to get around rent control. We have seen examples of offers from tenants—I understand that your Bill will avoid wars between tenants, in terms of rent levels, but because of demand-supply imbalance, tenants do offer landlords higher rents to get properties. Evidence across different states shows that rent control efficacy is variable, so it has to be very carefully designed.

Q You mentioned unintended consequences, a topic that I have come back to repeatedly today. We heard evidence earlier that rents in Scotland have outpaced those in the rest of the United Kingdom quite considerably in, I think, the last five years. You mentioned the 2022 rent control legislation and the impact that that has had on rents. If you can strip that out in your own mind and give us an assessment of what impact rent reform has had on rents over the past seven years, can you give the Committee a flavour of whether rents have gone up as a result, stayed the same, or reduced? Anna Evans: We show in the report that the rents increased at a similar rate to the rest of the UK until ’22. If you were trying to isolate why there was a more considerable increase since that time, you could probably fairly conclude that it was because of the 2022 legislation, but it is very difficult to isolate out. The range of legislation that has been implemented in Scotland is significant, but there was a tipping point in ’22 when rents in Scotland appear to have increased at a greater rate than in the UK. The key point was the 2022 legislation. I should also caveat all of that—as we have in our report—by saying that the Scottish rent data is not as good. It is based on advertised rents rather than any survey of in-tenancy rents. The published data on rent levels and the hike in Scotland will be for new tenancies, and therefore, that will naturally be inflated compared with most tenancies, because we know that landlords do not tend to increase rents in tenancy. They prefer to keep them at a level that keeps tenants content and therefore they have a longer rental period. That evidence has to be considered with caution, because it is based on advertised rents.

Q Just for the eradication of any doubt, are you under the impression that the introduction of rent controls has led to an increase in rents? Anna Evans: As I said, I do not think it is possible to absolutely isolate this out, but on advertised rents—new advertised rents—there was an increase post 2022 when that legislation came in. But you must remember that that does not include evidence of in-tenancy rents, which would be lower. So we cannot say that all average rents have increased as a result of that—we cannot say that at all.

Q So you cannot say that all average rents have increased because of in-tenancy rents, and you do not have the data on that, but in terms of advertised rents, since the introduction of rent controls, you have seen an increase in Scotland? Anna Evans: Yes.

Thank you.

Would anybody else like to ask a question, very quickly?

Q I am interested in the experience you have on regeneration. Social housing ends up with quite a lot of funding going towards regeneration in a way that the private rented sector would not necessarily automatically qualify for, in my understanding. What do you think the provisions of the Bill would be on regeneration—[Interruption.] Oh, we have covered regeneration. I am interested specifically in enhancements that you might have in a social housing setting that would not automatically be available for private rented housing. Have you seen anything that the Bill might have an impact on in relation to that? Anna Evans: Not through this research, sorry; no.

That is fine; thank you.

Thank you very much indeed for your evidence, and I hope the weather is good in Scotland. Anna Evans: It is a beautiful day today. Examination of Witness Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed gave evidence.

15:18:00

Good afternoon. Thank you very much for coming along. Would you like to introduce yourself, please? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: My name is Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed. I am deputy chief executive at the student housing charity Unipol Student Homes.

The acoustics in this room are notoriously bad, so it would help us all if you were able to keep your voice up, please. Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: I will do.

Q The situation with student rentals has been a much aired part of this process so far. Can I ask a couple of questions about the way in which the Bill interacts with students? The first is around the Bill exempting purpose-built student accommodation from the move to periodic tenancies. We have heard mixed feedback about the impact of that on students, particularly on those who may know they will be in a particular place for two years, let us say, and might wish to secure a property for that period. Do you agree with that exemption, or do you have other views that you can share? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: I agree with that exemption. Purpose-built student accommodation exists for a very specific purpose. Therefore, operators of that kind of accommodation need to ensure that they are renting only to tenants—they need to have the means to regain possession. Often, they have planning obligations linked to the fact that they should only house students in that type of housing, so if they had a situation where students were able to stay for an indefinite period, they might start to have non-students living in the accommodation, which would be problematic for the ongoing management of the property.

Q Do you have a view of how that impacts on, or relates to, property that has been converted to be student accommodation, as opposed to that which is purpose built? Many of us have universities in near proximity to our constituencies, where often a large number of houses have been turned into student accommodation. The university would not wish to see that accommodation lost to the student market, although the accommodation is not purpose built. Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: Yes, that is problematic. Every year, about 700,000 students live in the kind of housing that you describe, which I will call off-street housing. I hope everybody knows what I mean by that: a shared student house or flat that is not in purpose-built accommodation. About 700,000 students rely on that type of housing every year. It is more affordable, and it is available when students need it, which is at the start of their academic cycle. We are concerned about the potential loss of that housing, and we are concerned that because of elements of the Bill, it could become more expensive over time. It is an affordable part of the student housing sector at the moment. Rents are generally much lower than for other types of student housing—about £130 a week, on average—so it supports students with lower budgets to live at university in a more affordable way. We are concerned about the loss of that type of housing.

Q Propertymark called for new grounds that would allow landlords who rent houses—HMOs, or houses in multiple occupation—to students to seek possession in advance of the academic year. Do you agree with that suggestion, or do you have an alternative way to address the concerns that you outlined? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: In principle, I support the idea that landlords who are part of some sort of accreditation or recognised scheme should have an exemption for their accommodation in the same way as PBSA does. There are other ways of doing that. We at Unipol submitted some evidence with a suggestion that there should be a student tenancy for use in the off-street housing sector, which offers a fixed term with some other elements to it that would be very advantageous to students. Student housing is niche—it is very specific and has a very specific function—and certain practices and elements in there we think need special attention. A fixed-term tenancy for students would allow landlords to regain possession but provide the security of a fixed term to students, as well as benefits to them that speak to their specific needs. For example, people should not be able to use guarantors for students—that is restrictive and difficult for students from low-income backgrounds —and students should be able to give notice in certain circumstances, such as if they have left their course. If they are no longer at university, it would be very handy if they could give two months’ notice and that is that. We think that would be right. We also think that there is a real problem of early renting in the world of student housing—students who might need a tenancy from July end up renting places in September and October, because of pressure in the market. There is a shortage of student housing, and that is a real issue, so students rent earlier and earlier to get ahead of the market. We think that a cooling-off period should be attached to a student tenancy. Those are real pressures and difficulties that students experience, so we think that they need special treatment in the Bill. As I said, there are 700,000 students, which is not an inconsiderable number. They should have special treatment.

Q I would argue that we are giving students special treatment. To be entirely candid, I took some time to come to a view on what we should do in this area. We want students to benefit from the new system, but it has unique characteristics and we want to protect the supply of student accommodation. I do not know whether you are familiar with the previous Government’s Bill, but we have narrowed the grounds for possession in an attempt to capture a typical student and not a non-typical student—say, an adult learner with children who is living in a more non-typical student property. Do you think we have that right? Are there any ways in which you would tweak it? If we were looking to take action on sign-ups in advance, what is a reasonable period when landlords should be able to ask students to sign up in advance that does not, as you say, force them all to sign up far too early and in ways they may regret or have to re-examine? What is an appropriate period in which a sign-up would be reasonable? Lastly, do you understand why the sign-up arms race, as I might put it, has developed? It is hard to find an explanation for why all landlords are locked into a cycle of earlier and earlier sign-ups; it seems to have developed organically. Could you outline why you think that problem has arisen in the first place? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: To take the first point, in the Bill you have proposed ground 4A for possession of student tenancies. That is definitely a helpful addition and we were glad to see it brought forward. However, at the moment it is just for HMOs, which we assume is deliberate wording, so it is for properties with larger groups of three or more people living in them, and you have excluded one and two-bedroom properties. We think that will result in a loss of smaller properties from the student housing sector. The sector is quite particular. These properties have been set up close to universities, and the businesses are run in a particular way. I can understand why you might think that one and two-bedroom properties would perhaps have more mature students or students with families living in them. Often they do, but the reason why all students rent all properties in the student market is to do with them being at university. Generally, they are in that city and living in that housing only because they are at a university nearby. We think that excluding one and two-bedroom properties is problematic, because they are quite a big part of the market—more than you would think; it is not just mature students or students with families. A national advertising platform called Accommodation for Students has given us some data on this, and 31% of the properties listed on its website nationally are one and two-bedroom off-street houses. If you were to lose that amount of property from the student market, that would be problematic. I think that is likely, because if you are in a one or two-bedroom property and you can have an indeterminate tenancy and give notice at any point, you may give notice in January when there is no demand for students, and that property will end up leaving the cycle of the student market and going into the professional market. The average is 31% across the Accommodation for Students website, but in some locations it is even higher. In Newcastle and Preston, over 50% of the properties advertised are one and two beds, so it is not just mature students; it is younger undergraduates who are living in those types of houses because they suit their needs and they are available. Losing them would be very problematic over time and would reduce the supply of housing available to students. The second part of your question was about cooling-off periods and early renting. Why does it happen? I think it is a mixture of things. Students want to secure a nice house, so they go out early and try to beat the rest of the market. In some cities, there are shortages of accommodation because student numbers have increased considerably over recent years, and there is a cap on the amount of off-street housing that there can be because of planning—article 4 direction—so we are not making any more shared student housing. Students are aware that there is a shortage, and if they want to get the house that they want, they will try to get out there earlier and earlier to beat the market. That is why it happens, but it is really problematic, so we would like it to not happen. We have suggested that if you could say to students that they could cancel that agreement up to four months before the tenancy was due to begin, it would stop early renting. There would be nothing in it for landlords to try to get properties signed earlier and earlier, because students would be able to drop out. We do not think that would be problematic. It will not be an issue for landlords as the properties will still be let, but hopefully it would stop the silliness.

Q That is very useful. I have one final question. The previous Government did this as well, but the case for a specific ground for possession to ensure that the cyclical nature of the student market continues arose from engagement that said that we had to treat this differently. We do not have much data, and I wonder if you have any from your experience or what you pick up on anecdotally. How often do you think the ground for possession would actually be used? If I am being entirely candid, in my mind I can imagine it sitting there and maybe being of use on the odd occasion, but broadly I do not think that students overstay. Am I right in thinking that? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: No, they do not at all. It is not a problem. No-fault evictions are very rarely, if ever, used in the student housing market, because the need is cyclical, and generally most students will very happily move out when their tenancy is finished. I think it would be used very rarely, but it sends a useful signal that it is time to think about leaving. The real issue for me, and the more problematic thing that will stop the cyclical nature of student housing, is the ability of students to give two months’ notice. I understand not wanting to treat students differently from the rest of the market, but the need for housing is so tied to the particular reason of being at university. Most landlords deal with their tenancies on the basis of 12 months, and they set their rents on an annual basis. If you say, “Your tenant is able to give notice, and they might choose to leave in April or May,” those landlords will respond to that and think, “I will have to increase my rent, because I have an annual rental figure that I need.”

Q Their yields are quite generous as they are, compared with what is normal. Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: I do not have a tiny violin for landlords, but I am just saying what we think is likely to happen. It is a commercial operation and landlords need to cover their costs, and we think that if landlords perceive more risk they will seek to put up rents. Your previous witness talked about the situation in Scotland. One of the things we would really like the Government to do before going much further is an impact assessment on the student market, particularly looking at Scotland, because the evidence there about student homelessness as a result of the tenure changes is compelling. The Government in Scotland have a committee looking at how they can tackle the issue of student homelessness, and I think that is a bit of a warning for us all that we could very well be in that place in a couple of years’ time if we do not think about the student market, its particular characteristics and what it needs.

Q I have raised this already, but you seem to be suggesting that to extend the exemption you would have a special student tenancy. Is that right? Could you clarify if you would like to see that in the Bill? If not, if the Government were not willing to create a new tenancy, how would you draw the line in terms of bringing in all student accommodation? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: I think there are alternative options. There was discussion on the previous Bill about creating an accreditation scheme or some sort of certification for landlords in the off-street sector. That is worth considering if a landlord is part of a quality mark and might be able to offer fixed-term tenancies similar to PBSA. There would certainly be some benefits to that, and you would offer students a quality product with landlords who are accountable to somebody but can have certainty in their business planning, which would be beneficial. I also think that ground 4A should be amended and extended to all student properties.

Q On that point, how would you define “all student properties” in the Bill? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: We think that the definition of a student property in the Bill is fine; it is just the restriction to HMOs, which are three-bedroom properties. We think the definition of the type of property, or the size of the property, should be changed.

Q So would it be any property where one of the tenants was a full-time student? How would you define that? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: The way the Bill is drafted at the moment, they all have to be students for that to apply.

Q So that would be the control? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: Yes.

Q I wanted to pick up on a couple of points from your written evidence on joint tenancies. Under the new Bill, if one student leaves, you have the problem where the whole tenancy might end up collapsing. Do you have any thoughts about what the Bill could do to address those concerns, save the arguments that you have already made about having a specialist student tenancy? Also, on that point about the student tenancy, would you agree that there is a bit of an issue at the moment wherein quite a lot of students drop out of university, which is an issue in and of itself, but are locked into tenancies? Would this Bill address that situation? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: The joint tenancy issue is problematic, and there is no way to get around it. If you are in a joint tenancy, all the tenants are essentially treated as one. If one tenant gives notice, all the other tenants, in theory, could be asked to leave at the same time. I think landlords will be pragmatic about it and seek to manage that process actively. Unless it is in their interests to regain possession of the whole property, I think most landlords will try to smooth things out and find a resolution. Typically, the remaining tenants are liable for the rent on the room that has been vacated, and I think it would be very difficult for landlords to backfill, so the remaining tenants may find that the rent increases. That is going to cause quite a lot of rupture and disruption in the student market. We think about half of tenancies are on a joint basis at the moment, and that is going to be really disruptive. I cannot think of a way around it. Unless there was some sort of ability to have a fixed term, I think it is going to be really difficult. Sorry; I have forgotten the second bit of the question.

Q It was about the point that quite a lot of students drop out of university, so there is an issue, on the flipside of some of the points you made before, about those students being locked in. Would you agree that this Bill addresses that? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: Yes. I think a lot of landlords release tenants, certainly in the PBSA sector. If somebody leaves university or their circumstances change, I think a lot of landlords release tenants. I think it is right that if somebody leaves university, a landlord should seriously consider releasing them, perhaps with two months’ notice, and letting them leave. I think that would be a very good element of a student tenancy. Unipol is a landlord, and we release tenants if their circumstances have changed. It is a relatively small number of students who require that, but it is difficult. That would undoubtedly be an advantage to the students who need it.

Q I have a specific question on the new grounds for possession that we were just talking about. I interpreted the wording of the new ground that specifically gives the power to recover possession between June and September as potentially an oversight. One of the written statements we received—RRB 04, for Committee members—highlights that as well. The ground seems to fail to consider other kinds of students, such as people on a one-year Masters that starts in January, or nursing students who are often studying over the summer. I know, as I am friends with some of those people, that they found it hard enough to get housing on a non-traditional term as it was, without giving landlords a particular power to kick them out halfway through the summer when they are halfway through their course. Do you share that concern, and do you have suggestions for whether that should be changed? Victoria Tolmie-Loverseed: There are significant numbers of students—I do not know the exact numbers, but more and more are starting with January start dates. Some universities have five points in the year when you can start a degree or a Masters. It is problematic for Masters students whose course goes on until September or October, when they are having to write up, or PhD students. That can be difficult. I think there should be more flexibility in the current timetable of June to September, and perhaps in the ability to give notice at different points in the year for student properties.

I am afraid we do not have the flexibility to allow this question session to go on any further. Thank you very much for your attendance. Examination of Witnesses Melanie Leech, Suzannah Young and Timothy Douglas gave evidence.

15:40:00

Q This panel can go on until 4.20 pm. Perhaps we could start off with Timothy Douglas introducing himself. Timothy Douglas: Good afternoon, and thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence today. I am Timothy Douglas, the head of policy and campaigns at Propertymark, which is the UK’s leading professional membership body for property agents. We have 18,000 members working across the UK in lettings, sales, commercial property, as valuers, auctioneers and inventory service providers in commercial property. Melanie Leech: Thank you very much for the opportunity to give evidence this afternoon. My name is Melanie Leech. I am the chief executive of the British Property Federation, which represents institutional investment into the private rented market, which is everything from student accommodation to the build-to-rent sector to co-living and senior living.

And Suzannah Young, who is joining us on Zoom. Suzannah Young: Thank you, Chair. I am Suzannah Young, a policy officer at the National Housing Federation. We represent housing associations in England—social landlords providing 2.7 million homes to 6 million people. I will say a word about housing associations, if I may, because the Bill will have implications for them, as they offer assured tenancies. As they are not for profit, housing associations invest any income back into the development and maintenance of homes and into supporting residents and communities. They seek to provide tenants with long-term stability and security of tenure in good-quality, safe and affordable homes. We are a sector that has always offered assured tenancies and lower rents, and that delivers housing types unlikely to be found in the private rented sector, including three quarters of supported housing for people on low incomes with care and support needs. We therefore support the Bill’s aims to give greater rights and protections to renters.

Q This is a very broad-based panel with different perspectives. My first question is about the impact on housing associations. Could you each give us a brief introduction from the perspective of your organisations on what you think the impact of the Bill will be, in particular on the supply of private rented sector homes in the UK? Melanie Leech: Shall I kick off? Thank you for the question. The first thing to say is that we support the aims of the Bill and the drive to raise standards in the private rented sector. In particular, I would highlight measures such as the compulsory ombudsman—of course, many institutional landlords are already voluntarily members of the housing ombudsman service—along with the landlord database, which we have been calling for since 2008, the application of the decent homes standards and Awaab’s law to the sector, and recognition of the particular nature of the purpose-built student accommodation sector, which of course you have just been talking about. Our major concern with the Bill is that the courts will not be ready for the abolition of section 21. A cross-party consensus that a better functioning court system is an essential part of the reforms has been a significant factor in maintaining landlord support for rental reform. Its importance has consistently been recognised in the political debate—by the Select Committee on Housing, Communities and Local Government in the last Parliament, which looked at the previous Government’s reforms, and by the Mayor of London in his work on a London model. However, despite serious discussions starting on rental reform in 2017, we have made almost no progress on court reform, which leaves landlords with little confidence that sufficient improvements will be made to make these reforms work well. That, of course, should be the objective: not just to pass these reforms, but to ensure they work well for both landlords and tenants. One way of improving the court process is to digitalise both the process and the interface with claimants and defendants. We are really pleased that the Housing Minister is committed to continuing with the digitalisation project, but that is not going to deliver improvements any time soon. We are therefore heartened to hear the Housing Minister also talking about additional resource. This is essential because with section 21 gone, the courts will need to consider and process possession cases under section 8. Government data suggests that it currently takes just over seven months to process section 8 possession cases, including cases related to antisocial behaviour and rent arrears. It is worth stressing that that is an average. It is not uncommon to hear of cases taking more than a year. There is also a huge shortage of court bailiffs in parts of the country. For example, in some London boroughs it can take five months to secure the services of a court bailiff, even when your claim has been vindicated. That also, of course, has consequences for people who cannot access those homes that would be freed up, for example in cases of poor behaviour and rent arrears. While we recognise that improving the courts will not be a precondition of section 21 ending, at the very least we can call on the Government to outline what the justice system being ready means, both for tenants and responsible landlords; to commit to bringing waiting times down when it comes to the courts considering and processing legitimate possession cases; to ensure that the courts have clear and commonly agreed key performance indicators, which the Select Committee in the last Parliament recommended; and to improve staffing of the courts and tribunals, including recruiting more bailiffs. We would also urge this Committee to scrutinise that aspect of the Bill in detail, and to consider calling for evidence from the Ministry of Justice—so far as we are aware, we have never actually heard directly from the Ministry of Justice, which is best placed to explain what procedures will be in place to make sure the courts are strengthened to deal with these cases—and to ask what progress is being made on digitalisation. We urge the Committee to scrutinise the justice impact test shared between the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government and the Ministry of Justice—which will contain the projections on which the impact for this part of the Bill is based—so that we can all see that those have been properly scrutinised and that the court reforms that we need can be delivered. Timothy Douglas: At Propertymark, we recognise that there is an ongoing cost of living crisis and there is huge demand for private rented property. We also recognise the manifesto commitments from this Government and the other parties to the changes contained in the legislation. We certainly acknowledge a drive towards improved standards, but we all have to recognise the unintended consequences and the impact of the changes on landlords, agents and the supply of property. Certainly, our members are left wondering how this Bill will help to meet the huge demand for private rented property. Our data shows that on average there are almost 10 new applicants registered for each available property. One member in the west midlands, who has 13 offices across the region, has seen their lets—the number of properties—reduced from 5,348 to 5,006 since the start of the year, so we cannot underestimate the incentives for landlords or the investor appetite. These are significant changes. As has been said, we must get a commitment to reform the courts, the grounds have to be robust, and we must see enforcement of the existing rules by local authorities, never mind the raft of additional heavy-handed measures included in this legislation. We must retain fixed-term tenancies as an option where mutually beneficial for all parties, to retain flexibility and choice in the market.

Suzannah Young, do you wish to add to your initial remarks? Suzannah Young: In response to the specific question on the private rented sector, it is not an area where I have the most evidence to give, as my main area is the impact on housing associations. However, one thing I can say specifically is that we think that the proposed private rented sector housing ombudsman is absolutely right. Residents in the private rented sector should have access to an ombudsman. It is important that access is clear and easy to navigate for tenants, and that they have routes to redress where things have gone wrong. From that perspective, and from the perspective of housing associations, we would like to ensure clarity about the remit of the new ombudsman. There is already an ombudsman service for social housing. However, some housing associations also provide market rent homes. It will therefore need to be clear what the expectations on housing associations are, in terms of reporting on their market rent homes, and it should also be clear to tenants which ombudsman they should go to. For example, sometimes there will be social and market rent tenants in the same building with the same landlord. We need clarity on remits so that there is no confusion. I would like to comment on the points that Melanie Leech made about the readiness of the courts. Housing associations have experience of the impact of delays in the courts and the fast-tracking of possession cases during lockdown. Our members have experience that could be of use in the future. Our members report to us that there are already delays in the court system, which we heard earlier. It can take many months to get a possession hearing. That is a particular problem where possession is being sought, for example, for serious antisocial behaviour or domestic abuse, where delays to possession can increase the risk to tenants from perpetrators. If the Government wish to implement, for example, a system of fast-tracking of serious cases, there will need to be a robust mechanism. If all cases are fast-tracked, we will be in the same position as if no cases are fast-tracked. We had some feedback from our members about how the courts could have helped with improving their capacity, such as increasing bailiff availability, increasing clerk availability to help to deal with the paperwork and logging of cases on the new online portal, ensuring training for district judges, and addressing the health and safety concerns of bailiffs. If the Committee wishes, I can also give some evidence, either now or later, on the impact on housing associations.

I think we will stop there for the moment and hear some further questions.

Q I have two related questions. First, as has been said by all three of you, there will be an ombudsman, a tribunal and a court, all of which will have a slightly different role. I am interested in how you think the Bill can provide clarity for both tenants and landlords on where to go with different issues, thereby ensuring that they can enforce their rights and deal with things appropriately. Timothy Douglas: I think more clarity is needed in the letting agent space. Letting agents are already required to sign up to one of the two Government-approved redress schemes, but those two schemes do not adjudicate in the same way. The property ombudsman will work to a code of practice, and the property redress scheme would work to that code of practice or common law in order to make the adjudication. We are adding an additional layer to that through a landlord ombudsman. Our recommendation would be that those landlords who are fully managing property should sign up to a redress scheme, but we realise that that argument is not necessarily in the legislation and has not been won. We must look at the myriad management practices—let and rent collection, or fully managed. As a tenant, working with both a landlord and an agent, we have to get adjudication of this new scheme and the existing schemes, and get a code of practice in place for the sector, so that we are all working to the same standards and the same adjudication. Are we also expecting landlords, like agents, to have a complaints procedure that tenants have to work through? We need that parity before we even talk about tribunals and the other things. We must use the existing schemes and that expertise in the sector. There are 19,000 letting agents in England, and roughly 50% of landlords use an agent, so 50% of landlords are already plugged into those schemes. They have knowledge and experience. Let us get a code of practice built in, so that we are all adjudicating on the same level. Let us get some sort of housing complaints portal across tenures, so that the tenant can make a complaint that is filtered to the relevant ombudsman. We must help the consumer. We are adding a layer of complexity and we need to iron out some of those issues first. Melanie Leech: I will build on that, but by standing back slightly from the question, because I think this is a subset of a much broader set of issues around transition. This will be hugely complex. We have 4.6 million tenants who will need new leases. Some of them are sub-letting and so on. We have all those new agreements to draft. We are going to need lots of training for the professionals who are managing this. We will need new processes and guidance for agents and local authorities. We will need adjustments to insurance and mortgage policies. The lesson from Wales and Scotland is that a big bang approach does not necessarily work because you cannot get all of that right in one go. We are keen to work with the Government to start thinking now about the implementation strategy. Clarity for tenants and landlords about how the new system will work, where to go and so on is critical to that, but we need to start thinking about that now and to create an implementation framework, because if we do not, these new reforms will not work well. Timothy Douglas: Scotland has been talked about as an example, but of course, it has phased in private residential tenancies—there still are assured tenancies working in Scotland. But Scotland has a long-standing landlord register, and it has letting agent registration and regulation. There is a tribunal that is free to use for both landlords and tenants. Scotland definitely had a 12 to 15-month phase-in approach for the PRT to kick in. From what we are hearing, we will have Royal Assent, three months and a commencement, and then all these tenancies will switch over. That is an issue for all agents, but certainly for our larger agents, who are managing thousands of tenancies up and down the country. A consideration of the impacts of the transition and extending that would be welcome before the implementation of this legislation.

Q Briefly, there is another subset of a broader issue around things like the decent homes standard. We have heard from various sources of evidence that there is a need to ensure that property owners have the time and necessary support to achieve that. We know in the rest of the UK housing stock that that can be a challenge due to the physical nature of it. What are your views as to how the Bill addresses that issue? Timothy Douglas: From Propertymark’s point of view, we want to see warm, decent homes. The agent can actually be a layer of enforcement, whether they instruct the landlord to take on that property or not, as well as mortgage providers. Unlike social housing, which is designed to specific specifications, the property redress scheme comprises a range of property without specification. The decent homes standard was argued about in the previous Session. It was consulted on by the last Government. There were numerous working groups with the last Government and, yes, it is going to be consulted on again. From Propertymark’s point of view for the private rented sector, we have to link up with local authority assessments. We have to focus on fit-for-purpose. I know that local authorities—certainly a local authority in the midlands—will, without fail, change all the boilers every five years in their housing stock. I am sorry, but private rented landlords do not have the money to do that, and the social rented sector has received billions of pounds in eco funding as well. If we are to get that parity between the private and social rented sector, the private rented sector needs to see that funding come forward, certainly in the thermal comfort space—cool in the summer, warm in the winter. Why, for the 18 different archetypes of property across the country, are we going for a one-size-fits-all energy efficiency target? That is going to nullify older properties in England and Wales where the regulations extend and rural properties. Let us simplify the HHSRS as well. There are existing levers that we need. Finally, on this point about extending decent homes and Awaab’s law, we welcome these steps as long as we get them right for the uniqueness of the private rented sector. In the Social Housing (Regulation) Act 2023, which was passed in the last Parliament, there is a requirement for all property managers in the social rented sector to be qualified. We think that should be extended to the private rented sector to all letting agents as well. If we can get that code of practice in place through adjudication and redress, we can qualify our letting agents. We get parity, drive up standards and help enforcement. That would certainly go a long way towards the decent homes standard and Awaab’s law being implemented in this sector.

Q Melanie, can I address a specific question to you about suppliers? There has been a lot of discussion today about the mismatch between supply and demand. We have touched on the provisions in the Bill about how tenants can challenge within-tenancy rent increases and so on. In terms of overhauling the private rented sector, the Bill is part of a wider transformation of the housing system that we want to carry out. There is absolutely a chunk of private renters, particularly in the bottom half of the market, who should be in social rented housing, and we want to build more of that, but we also want to grow future supply in the PRS. What do you think the Bill will do specifically to build-to-rent providers? Do you think they will accommodate themselves to these changes? Are there lingering concerns that you think will impact on investment in that future supply and professionalising the private rented sector as we grow it? Melanie Leech: The first thing to say, as you know, is that institutional investment into the build-to-rent sector specifically is a growing part of the housing supply mix. It is bringing in genuinely additional investment, because it is the type of investment that does not typically invest in build to sell—you have people wanting to use large amounts of capital to generate secure income streams so that they can match against pension liabilities, insurance liabilities and so on. Probably the key word in that is “secure”. Anything that damages investors’ confidence that the income they will get from their investment is at risk will undermine our potential to unlock investment into homes and the rental sector. Currently, the peak year for build-to-rent delivery was 15,000 homes. We think that you can double that to 30,000 homes, with the right conditions, and some of my members would go further and say that you can double that again. We are looking at an investment stream that could be a very significant part of helping to deliver the Government’s aspirations to build more homes. What I have already talked about, in terms of the ability of the courts to cope with the reforms, is an important indicator of confidence. Investors will look at that and think, “This changes the basis on which I have invested. It makes it more difficult for me to manage the property efficiently.” I think the issues around rent determination also have that potential, so there is nervousness around needing to use section 13 and rent increases. There is a suspicion that tenants have nothing to lose by challenging any rent increase, so it is about getting the framework right around how we define what an unreasonable rent increase might be and how we manage those cases that might come before tribunals. There are some issues around that that we would like to see more clarity around and redressed. In general, we are really supportive, because in the part of the market that I represent the decent homes standard already would not cause us an issue in terms of implementation and so on. We are trying to raise standards in the private rented sector, and we are raising standards in the private rented sector, but the key thing is to implement the reforms in a way that does not undermine investor confidence, so that we do not inhibit the supply of homes.

Q While I have got you on that point, we heard from Ben Beadle earlier a view that landlords would adapt to the date payable of a rent when challenged—I think this is what he implied—by changing the point at which they serve their section 13 notices to perhaps account for that lead-in time. What would you expect to see? Would annual increases be standard or given at a particular time? How do you think that the sector, build-to-rent and the more typical cottage landlords would adapt to that change? Melanie Leech: This is pure speculation, because I have not asked members this question. History suggests that once legislation is passed, those affected by it figure out the best way to protect their interests in the light of the new framework, so I would broadly expect that to happen. But if we are asking ourselves how we get back to a position where investors can have confidence, we should probably ask ourselves why we are asking that question in the first place. We should be creating a framework within which investors can have that confidence. For example, some of the nervousness will be around the fact that, if you have a litigious tenant who takes you to the tribunal and ultimately to the courts over a rent increase, and the decision goes in the landlord’s favour, you have still lost several months. You cannot backdate the reasonable rent increase for which you have just won the court’s authority, so you have lost a lot of money in terms of both the rent accruing and the amount of time you have to spend going through that process. Let us just remind ourselves that when I talk about landlords here, I am primarily talking about pension funds and insurance funds, so it is our money. Timothy Douglas: I think that is the point. While we need supply—and we need supply from all sources—landlords in the private sector are a broad community. The bulk of private rented sector landlords have one, two or three properties. What is disincentivising investor confidence is not necessarily the competence of this Bill, but the sector would welcome a review of all taxes and costs that have impacted private landlords in the past five years. We have seen the reduction in mortgage interest relief, the 3% additional surcharge when you buy a rented property, tinkering with capital gains tax—some are taxed as businesses while some are not—and changes to the wear and tear allowance. If we really focus and want to be sensible about incentivising landlords and the investment community, we have to shine a spotlight on taxes and costs. Alongside this legislation, we need to enact the registration requirements in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 on short-term lets as well. Otherwise, we are going to see a further exodus of landlords to the short-term lets market, which is less regulated and has fewer controls in place. We need to build more social homes. Ultimately, as you will know, Minister, our argument remains that we need to retain fixed-term tenancies as an option. They give the landlord and the tenant a guarantee of the length of time they will be there and the rent that they will pay. Families renting with children near schools, as well as nurses who have placements, are coming to our agents saying that they want to know how long they are going to be in situ. As I say, we need to provide long-term tenancy options for those who want them and ensure that people do not go to the unregulated short-term lets market.

Q Can I challenge you on that point, because I have never understood it? Under the rolling, periodic tenancy system that we are introducing, a family that moves into a property can determine when they leave. As long as there is no antisocial behaviour, for example, they can decide when they leave, so they have all the advantages of a fixed-term tenancy. I am not picking up on this cry among tenants for fixed-term tenancies. Perhaps you can elaborate on where you are coming from on that point? What are the additional advantages that are not provided by this rolling, periodic system? Timothy Douglas: We have just been talking about the other side of the coin, which is investors.

No, not investors. You made a point about tenants. Timothy Douglas: Yes, but that is the crux of it. Unfortunately, if you push too far on the fixed-term tenancy option, the grounds are not robust enough for landlords. Unfortunately, they do not know how long the tenant is going to be in situ. They cannot plan their investment, and they do not know the return on their rent. It is a mutual agreement. We are not saying that it is one or the other. We are saying retain it as an option. Why are we legislating to reduce choice and flexibility? Agents are telling me up and down the country that that is what tenants want. The leading letting agent in London, which manages 65,000 tenancies, says that fixed-term contracts are popular within the private-rented sector. Many tenants opted for tenancies between one and three years, with the average first term lasting 23 months. At the end of the initial term, 65% of tenants choose to renew. Only 1% of tenancies are ended early by landlords; 5% are ended by tenants. People know where they stand and where they are going to be. It is an option that should be included in the legislation. We have talked today about students as well. It would solve all the problems in the student market. We are tinkering there with issues that just do not exist. Retain fixed-term tenancies for all, or at least within the student market, or extend ground 4A to one or more sharers. You are tying yourselves in knots in so many ways.

Q We covered extending the grounds to more than three sharers in the previous evidence session, and I think everyone knows where I stand on that. If you are right that the biggest effect of the move away from fixed-term tenancies is on investment into the build-to-rent, or corporate, sector that you are talking about, and if the Bill were to allow fixed-term tenancies—perhaps the first tenancy of a build-to-rent new build—would that help the sector up from delivering 15,000 units to 30,000 more units? Timothy Douglas: I was actually saying that fixed terms should be retained regardless of landlords.

Q In response to the Minister, you did also mention the corporate sector—but it does not matter. My point is, can you comment on retaining that fixed-term option for the first tenancy in new build premises? Would that deliver some of the incentives that you want to see? Melanie Leech: A minimum tenancy would certainly help with investor confidence.

Q Of what length? Melanie Leech: Ideally, we would want a year—perhaps six months. On the impact, to answer the Minister’s point, it is not that families cannot stay for as long as they want to. This is a high-quality product—I am talking particularly about the build-to-rent sector. The risk for build-to-rent providers is that people will treat build to rent more like an Airbnb-type product. That could transform what should be rental products for families to move into for the long term. That is what we want—we want people to stay somewhere to make it their home. But this proposal will inhibit the supply of those products to long-term tenants, because we are vulnerable to short-term tenancies flipping all the time. That is the concern. It is not that people cannot stay for long if they want to; it is that those products will be easier for people to treat more like a short let—an Airbnb-style product. Timothy Douglas: We need build to rent, but let us not forget that in build to rent, on average, the rents are a lot higher, because people are paying for a concierge and the other services, so it is not the ultimate answer for all parts of the sector. We are not going to support everyone. I do not think that there should be a timeframe on the fixed term, but we can make use of grounds that landlords cannot use as levers, and you could put break clauses in as well.

Q My question goes back to the decent homes standard, and the first part of the question is potentially more for Suzannah. What insights do you have into the impact of the application of the decent homes standard in the social rented sector and then, potentially, on everyone else? How do you see it translating across to the private sector, in terms of the impact on the standard of homes there? Suzannah Young: We believe that everyone has the right to a warm, dry, safe, secure and affordable home, and social housing has a greater proportion of decent homes than housing of any other tenure. That could suggest that having a decent homes standard helps to bring up standards in housing. We also recognise that housing associations exist to fulfil a social purpose, and we are rightly held to a higher standard. We welcome the Government’s commitment to reviewing the decent homes standard. We are pleased to continue to work with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government as this develops. In terms of some feedback for the private rented sector, we agree that it is important to have a clear, modern and meaningful standard that reflects what residents would expect a decent home to be. It is also important that all landlords should have a clear understanding of the condition of all their homes. In the social sector, we are doing work to develop a more consistent approach in that area, as part of our response to “The Better Social Housing Review”. It would need to be something that private landlords were able to do as well to bring up standards. Specifically—this has been mentioned in terms of the private sector—it is important to recognise that the housing association sector faces multiple and competing pressures, with budgets that are already stretched. We would like to see investment in existing homes at the same time as development of the desperately needed new and affordable homes in the Government’s long-term housing strategy. I suggest that similar attention would be needed for the private sector. Timothy Douglas: May I pick up on that point? That argument was used in Scotland on the Cost of Living (Tenant Protection) (Scotland) Act 2022. I gave evidence on that legislation two or three times to the Committee up there. In the end, the argument was that the cap was lifted for the social rented sector because it needs to plan for its investment. That is the crux, and it goes back to my previous points—there is no parity here with the incentives, the business planning and the costs that private landlords are facing. We have to have that parity. If the legislation is extending across, the funding needs to be the same. We have to have parity in the investment, the caps and everything else—that needs to be the same. We need that review into all the taxes and costs impacting private landlords, because, quite frankly, we are not getting legislation from either Government Department—the Treasury or MHCLG—that understands the investor appetite for the private rented sector. This legislation is not helping.

Q This is a question mostly for Timothy. At the beginning of your contribution, you mentioned the unintended consequences we see from the Bill, and you gave the example of landlords departing the market. I know there is often the argument that they are still providing a home somewhere else if those properties get purchased. I am interested in the statistics you might have—representing both estate agents and landlords—on the impact on the housing market in full. How many properties stay in the private rented sector? Do they move from one landlord to another, or is that ultimately a property that is then lost permanently from the private rented sector? Timothy Douglas: It is difficult to say. We know anecdotally that if you are in an agent branch and a landlord wants to sell, the branch would try to push that property towards a bigger landlord who could perhaps take it on before it goes on to the open market. We know that that happens in order to retain property. Anecdotally, we know that, because of legislative uncertainty and costs of legislation, as well as the cost of living, which has also hit landlords with their costs, landlords have left the sector—I gave the example of the agent in the west midlands previously. However, it is difficult to ascertain hard data across the board. That could be another recommendation to the Government: to come back with an annual review to Parliament on the state of the private rented sector. Suzannah Young: May I come in on that?

We are going to have to go on to the next question, because we are running short of time. I call Michael Wheeler, who has been waiting.

Q Thank you, Sir Christopher. I appreciate that Suzannah was asking to come in, and my question is actually for her, so this might give her an opportunity to respond. It is a slightly broad question: what concerns might housing associations have around the Bill? Could any aspects of it be constructively improved to address those concerns? Suzannah Young: Thank you for your question. As I said, we welcome the Bill, and we support the Government’s ambition to give greater rights and protections to people renting their homes, and to value the contributions made by responsible landlords who provide quality homes. We do think it is crucial that the details of the legislation do not have unintended consequences for housing associations and for people living in social housing. We would like to ensure that the changes do not impact housing associations’ ability to provide decent, safe, secure and affordable homes for people who need them most. It is clear that care has been taken in drafting the Bill to minimise the impacts on social housing and tenants of social housing, and we are grateful for the engagement on these issues from MHCLG so far. However, there remain a few areas that we feel need ironing out to avoid impacting the ability of our housing association members to deliver housing in what is a challenging environment, while still keeping rents affordable. Those specifically relate to the changes to rent increases, with ground 1 being the rent to buy ground and ground 6 being the redevelopment ground. First, we would like to see the proposals around rent increases made clearer or changed to make absolutely certain that they retain social landlords’ ability to increase rent in a harmonised way, which is to avoid impacts on the supply of social housing and to ensure fair rent levels for neighbours and the ability to deliver repairs, maintenance and services to tenants. That is because, as I mentioned earlier, all rental income is reinvested into providing those services. So any loss of rent would have an impact on tenants who receive those services, and repairs and maintenance. We would also like to see ground 1B extended to apply when the home is converted to another rental product, which is not currently in the ground. That would be in order to help housing associations to meet local housing need where there is no demand for rent to buy or purchase. We would like housing associations to have access to ground 6 in all cases, so that they can carry out essential works that are of benefit to tenants. We will follow up with more detail in our written evidence, and we would be happy to meet any members of the Committee if they would like to discuss any of these points in more detail.

Thank you very much, and I thank all the panel for the evidence that they have provided to us. I am sorry that we do not have any discretion, but we now have to move on to the next panel. Examination of Witnesses Councillor Adam Hug and Dr Henry Dawson gave evidence.

16:21:00

We have Dr Dawson here physically and Councillor Hug on Zoom. Could you please introduce yourselves briefly? Dr Henry Dawson: Good afternoon. My name is Dr Henry Dawson. I work as a lecturer at Cardiff Metropolitan University and I am a member of the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health’s housing advisory panel. I am here today to represent the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health. Cllr Adam Hug: I am Councillor Adam Hug. I am the Local Government Association’s chair for local infrastructure and net zero, which basically means its housing spokesman, among other things, and I am the leader of Westminster City Council. I am here at the LGA conference in Harrogate; apologies for that.

Q I have two questions, and perhaps we can start with the one that is relevant to both organisations. Both of you have expressed concerns about the enforcement burden that provisions of the Bill would place on local authorities. Although there is a new burdens protocol out there, could you share your views about the level of funding that would be required to enforce correctly and how that would best be financed? Dr Henry Dawson: Councillor Hug, shall I start and then pass on to you? Cllr Adam Hug: Okay. Dr Henry Dawson: At the moment, we have quite considerable extra burdens being placed on local authorities. The two major areas for that would be in the enforcement around the database and in managing the landlords who have either been rejected from or refused to join the ombudsman’s scheme. In both cases, the fees that are available to be charged for the schemes will generate some revenue. However, national schemes, by their very nature, will have to be relatively low cost. Rent Smart Wales is a good example. It has an application fee that is little more than £100, so that allows for some intervention. However, the majority of the burden for the enforcement side of things under this new Bill will be placed on local authorities. If just 5% of a sector was to refuse to engage with one scheme or the other, a typical local authority would have around 700 properties that it had to carry out formal enforcement work on, and an awful lot of those would require civil penalty notices or prosecutions. The CIEH is very keen to see that the funding for local authorities is linked directly to the fees for these schemes and represents the cost proportionately, with the additional burden being placed on the enforcement bodies for the private rented sector—environmental health and private housing enforcement teams. The notable exception in the Bill is that the ombudsman fees are permitted to cover the cost for the ombudsman to enforce its statutory functions, but there is nothing specific in there, as there is for the database, for those funds to be passed on directly to a local authority. The other thing we have found with previous legislation is that there is usually short-term additional funding from the Secretary of State’s general budget to support local authorities in introducing these new burdens, but then that sort of tails off. It is replaced with a whole miscellany of short periods of funding, which makes it impossible for local authorities to manage staffing and attract and train up new staff. We are therefore ending up with a situation where approximately half the posts we have for local authority enforcement teams in environmental health are going unfilled for more than six months. It has been a real hand-to-mouth existence for local government enforcement teams. If we could have funding proportionate to the size of the sector in a particular area coming directly from the fees for these national schemes, it would be very gratefully received by local authorities.

Q Councillor Hug, do you have anything to add to that point? Cllr Adam Hug: To echo that, I think it is important to understand where we are starting from. We have seen environmental health teams in councils cut over the last 14 years, because of the financial situations councils find themselves in. Environmental health officer posts are one of the top three most challenging roles for councils to fill at the moment. It is really important that the new burdens doctrine is applied properly, with up-front funding to make sure that councils can build teams to deliver this as quickly as possible. We welcome the proposed fine retention, but we think there may be a case for raising the upper limit for the most egregious cases from the current £7,000 up to about £30,000 to fully capture the impacts of some of the worst properties, but also to ensure that revenue can fund council services that are enforcing this. We welcome this, but we must make sure that local councils are properly resourced to deliver it. Dr Henry Dawson: May I make one additional comment, please? At the moment, the Bill makes substantial use of civil penalty notices. We welcome the use of them. It is very welcome to see funding coming directly into local authority enforcement coffers, as it is something we do not get through prosecutions that are carried out through the courts. It is, however, worth pointing out that they represent the very thinnest end of the wedge for the enforcement activity of local authorities. We only use them where all the informal approaches—service of legal notices and so on—have been unsuccessful, and we are forced to resort to taking more punitive action. In the majority of cases, we can resolve things informally with landlords, and the majority of landlords are good providers. It is just worth noting that while the penalties are a source of income, they are not predictable or particularly sustainable. Only around 50% of what we charge in penalties at the moment is collected, because of the difficulties in trying to capture the money at the other end of the process. I would just caution against assuming that they are a very reliable source that will keep us going. There are an awful lot of other things we have to pay for.

Q That is a point I made on Second Reading, so I entirely agree. Under the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017, local authorities are significant users of the private rented sector for people who would otherwise be at risk of homelessness. It is common for local authorities to pay rent-in-advance deposits and use various other guarantee schemes to secure private rented sector homes for people who would otherwise not be able to access a home. Councillor Hug, I am interested in how you think the Bill would impact on the performance of that duty. Cllr Adam Hug: In terms of the ability for councils to procure accommodation, having stability in the rental market will help us in managing demand pressures. We are conscious that there is an interaction with the Housing Act 2004 requirements around the prevention duty. That is one of the major challenges created by this Bill, so we want to ensure that local authorities are properly resourced to cover the potential additional time beyond the current 56 days, where we are having to provide prevention support to people while enforcement happens—[Interruption.]

Q You froze for a moment there. We missed about the last 20 seconds. Cllr Adam Hug: Apologies; I was just saying that the biggest area of concern about our homelessness duties is ensuring that the increased costs to councils of providing the additional prevention duty over the length of time for which the section 8 notices are going through the court are properly captured. That, on the interaction with housing, is the area we are most concerned about, but it is all perfectly solvable.

Q Could we address the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017 element? It is common for local authorities to engage with private rented sector landlords and act as guarantor to secure a property for someone who would not otherwise be able to access that property but would be put into temporary accommodation by the local authority. It is a better solution for the tenant and less costly for taxpayers. If the Bill were to prohibit local authorities from acting as guarantor in that situation, would that have an impact on their ability to secure those properties? Cllr Adam Hug: We are not aware that this Bill creates a particular problem in that regard. We can come back to you in writing if there is anything further, but it is not an area of particular concern to us at the moment.

Q Can we move on to licensing schemes? I know there has been much debate in the local government world about them, and I have seen at first hand their operation in London. Would you be able to say a bit about the barriers that exist at the moment to the implementation of licensing schemes? Do you think the Bill sufficiently addresses those barriers? Cllr Adam Hug: No, we do not think it does. The key thing for us is that you have the current selective licensing mechanisms, but councils face bureaucratic hurdles in terms of getting the Secretary of State’s sign-off for large schemes that wish to go down that route. In terms of ensuring decisions are made at the right level, in line with the Government’s commitment to devolution, we think that for selective licensing to really fulfil its potential we must ensure there is no longer a need for the Secretary of State’s sign-off. Obviously, that sort of licensing can improve standards in the sector, help councils to recruit environmental health officers, beef up the function and make sure we are playing a proactive role in helping manage the private rented sector in a local area. Different councils have used it, but at the moment it is hamstrung by the bureaucratic hurdle of getting it up to the Secretary of State. Obviously, we have a Secretary of State who is probably more minded to support the use of such schemes than was the case in the past, but it still creates an unnecessary hurdle and a delay when councils could just get on and use these licensing schemes that are desperately needed. Dr Henry Dawson: May I add some responses? At the moment, we have a maximum five-year duration for discretionary licensing schemes. Once the schemes have been brought into force, it takes a certain amount of time to create the partnerships with other organisations, such as waste and street scene departments, police and antisocial behaviour teams, and antisocial behaviour schemes within the council, other charities and NHS-related bodies. They usually take between one and three years to mature. Local authorities are also required to entice enough staff to be able to immediately provide a strong inspectorate to run these schemes. That can be anything from five to 50 staff, depending on the size of the scheme. We find that the five-year duration of schemes is a significant impediment, so it would be much more welcome to see something like a 10-year timeframe. That would permit us to train up new staff through the existing one or three-year qualifications. It would also allow these partnerships to mature so we see some of the true benefits of the schemes. The other thing is that a large private rented sector is required; that is a point that a local authority has to prove when it is setting up one of these selective licensing schemes. We see that as an unnecessary hurdle to their introduction. They are part of a package of measures to address a range of problems associated with housing conditions, crime and antisocial behaviour across an area, and we see that as being an unnecessary impediment to their execution. It is one more thing that the local authority has to prove. Finally, discretionary schemes, and particularly selective licensing, are one of the few things that provide access to properties. Even though the legislation has been changed, with some regulations to expand the use of selective licensing to include dealing with poor housing conditions, under the Housing Act 2004 we are unable to enforce conditions relating to the condition and contents of a property. We can only change those in HMO licensing conditions; we cannot change them in selective licensing conditions. Therefore, this is the first opportunity that we have really had, with a piece of primary legislation, to amend the Housing Act 2004 to provide parity in what local authority environmental health officers can require in the conditions and contents of properties through selective licensing, in addition to HMO licensing.

Q Could I follow up on the point about local authority enforcement? The Bill introduces an effective, consistent and proportionate framework for enforcement, but we have to ensure that local authorities can enforce in practice, and we know that there is variation across the country in their ability to do so. There is also the wider context about resourcing of local government over the recent period. We are clear that we want to primarily target along the “polluter pays” principle, with bad landlords covering the cost of their own enforcement. You mentioned the fines—£7,000 for first or minor compliance issues, and £40,000 for more serious ones— and they can be levied repeatedly. I just want to get a sense of how much of the cost of enforcement you think those fines can account for. We recognise that it will not be enough, and that the new burdens principle will have to operate, but have you got a sense of it in terms of, as you say, how many cases are resolved before it reaches that point? What will be the willingness under the new system to levy these kinds of fines, and what proportion of the enforcement costs do you think, on average, local authorities might see those fines account for? Dr Henry Dawson: Thank you for your question, Minister. At the moment, we have the use of civil penalty notices, and I would defer to a report by the National Residential Landlords Association to provide a summary of their use over the period between 2001 and 2003. We see that approximately £12 million was given in penalties over that period, and around £6 million of that was recorded as collected through penalties over that period. It is also worth noting that these civil penalty notices are intended to be an alternative to a prosecution through the courts; they are not intended to be a revenue generator. The licensing fees, the ombudsman fee and the database fees are where we can generate the revenue at the front end. These civil penalty notices are being used as a final, ultimate punishment for some of the worst offenders. Yes, we can administer £7,000 for the initial offence and £40,000 for ongoing offenders, but they really are intended to be a deterrent, as opposed to a source of revenue. The majority—maybe 90%—of a local authority’s work is carried out through informal advice giving, with people ringing up and asking for guidance in what is a very complex legislative environment. That is certainly something that landlords and letting agents would like to have more of. We serve formal legal notices, but it is only when we have gone through a whole series of informal approaches that we move to a formal approach through a legal notice and, ultimately, a prosecution or penalty notice. Therefore, really, we are looking at maybe 5%—to pluck a figure out of the air—which is a tiny proportion of what we have got across the country, and probably the only national figures we have on this are those that have been pulled together by the NRLA.

Q I want to pick up on a specific point about the antisocial behaviour grounds for possession. Adam, the Local Government Association has expressed concerns about the definition of antisocial behaviour. I wondered whether that was linked to the previous definition, which we have amended. Cllr Adam Hug: indicated assent.

You are nodding vigorously, which is a good indicator, but have you got views more widely about the changes that we have made on antisocial behaviour—about being able to take action immediately, for example, or considering the implications on other people in a household, as well as that switch back to “likely”, rather than “capable of”, which we felt was too broad under the previous legislation? Cllr Adam Hug: Absolutely. We agree that the previous legislation was too broad to be meaningful. I think the key thing for us is supporting where we are now, in terms of reverting to “likely”, but, also, there needs to be clear guidance given by the Department—obviously, building on existing case law—with clear definitions from your team about what constitutes antisocial behaviour, both so that landlords know and so that councils can know regarding enforcement. I am sure that there are teams at the LGA, and others, that are happy to work with you on the development of that, but giving clear guidance to the sector is going to be essential to ensuring that the powers are used effectively.

Q We have spoken about the database before. I think it has the potential to be an incredibly powerful tool on a number of fronts to the benefit of tenants but also local authorities in bearing down on more disreputable landlords, including criminal landlords. Can you give us a sense of what you think the sector needs in terms of detail coming through in secondary legislation for that database to be able to operate most effectively for local authorities? Dr Henry Dawson: The CIEH would be keen to be part of discussions with the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government about the operation of that database. I note that quite a lot of the content in the Bill is to be delivered through secondary legislation, and if we could be part of the shaping of that legislation, it would be very welcome. Things that would make it more effective include ensuring local authorities’ ease of access to the records on the database; providing local authorities with broad enforcement powers that would allow things such as the provision of information from any person; and the ability readily to access records of other local authorities’ enforcement activities. These sorts of records make it much easier for us to co-ordinate our activity across different areas of the country. Having a single database operator, providing, as one of its functions, a source of advice in the industry would also provide us with a single point of information to refer people to when they come to us asking for support. That would alleviate a lot of the burden and the time our officers spend managing these requests for information. Therefore, we would not be relying on what are often chat forums and other informal information sources for our landlord operators to address problems on what is usually a responsive and as-and-when-they-occur basis. Eighty-five per cent of landlords in the sector own one to three properties. That is roughly half the sector’s total housing stock, so those are the landlords we need to focus on trying to support. Providing advice and guidance will be an invaluable function of the database operator.

Q My question slightly expands on what David said earlier about the burden on local authorities. The new building safety legislation, for example, was really good news, but it had an impact on the level of staffing available to carry out roles, because of the conflict with the private sector, which might offer people higher salaries. Do either or both of you think that there is a similar risk with this Bill? What could we be doing to ensure that we have the right lead-in time and adequate staffing? Is there an immediate solution that we could learn from that previous example? Dr Henry Dawson: Councillor Hug, would you like to start? Cllr Adam Hug: As much support as possible in training up the next generation of environmental health officers is essential. There is a whole raft of skills shortages across the housing sector that you touched upon. Obviously, we want to make sure that people are considering this line of work as a career they want to go into rather than leave. There is a pipeline problem in terms of people coming into environmental health as a workstream, but I do not think that should necessarily delay what we are doing with the Bill. Ultimately, it has been talked around for some time; we need to crack on and get it done. It is absolutely the case that getting that local funding piece is right. Then we can join up with skills and training by making sure that local authorities have a pathway to recruit people into their teams. It is about getting the funding piece right alongside the direction of travel. Dr Henry Dawson: We face some barriers to bringing people into the profession. For example, we have some more sustainable sources of income with things like licensing legislation, where we can charge a fee; at the moment, my own research finds that only about half those schemes charge enough in fees to cover the full costs of management and enforcement. The Lawrence and Wilson review of selective licensing has shown that if we do not charge enough, it ends up reducing the exercise into a sort of glorified paperwork, so we have to charge enough to make it meaningful. I would argue that staffing is probably one of the most fundamental issues when it comes to the effectiveness of the interventions proposed in the Bill. At the moment, the predominantly hand-to-mouth existence with local authorities, which we have had for quite a long time now, has been predicated on the fact that we are relying on the council tax payer to fund the enforcement of the private rented sector. That is quite peculiar compared with other industries such as building control or planning, which are able to levy up-front fees that do not have to go through a test of political will—which a lot of local authority managers have to navigate to try to predict what the market within their local political support will accept. It takes a lot out on the guesswork and acceptability side. The ability to charge a fee also provides us with a sustainable and predictable source of income, and that has been lacking for a long time in local government. If you are never sure of whether you will have funding beyond one or possibly three years, with short-term pots of money that are provided often based on a competitive approach—it is about winning them—then you get a member of staff, but you have to train them once you have got them in. Being optimistic, we can train them through an apprenticeship scheme lasting a year to do just housing work, or if we are training them as an environmental health officer, it is three years for the traditional degree route or five years for an apprenticeship. Having some form of ringfencing of the funding, which allows local authorities to dedicate resources to attract people into the profession, would be very helpful, as the report that I have pretty much every time I speak to a local authority about recruitment for my programme at the university is, “We don’t have the resources to send people to these events to raise awareness about the profession.” A lot of people are just not aware of what we do; once they find out, it is something that sells itself. Fire and police are comparable bodies, and they tend to have much more success because they have the resources to devote to this. It comes down to sustainable and predictable funding. That allows us to train and retain, and attract new staff.

Q I have a question about the wider implications of the Bill and the impact on local authorities. For example, it would be helpful to understand whether you feel the abolishment of section 21 will have a wider implication, and how it might help to tackle some of the bigger homelessness challenges that local authorities are currently seeing—or whether it will have an impact at all. Cllr Adam Hug: I think the provision will help; the whole point is that we are desperate for this. It has been talked about for a long time and as soon as it can be brought in to provide security in the market, it will be extremely helpful to help stabilise a lot of tenancies where there is still uncertainty. The quicker it can come in, the more helpful it will be. The Bill will not be a magic bullet that will solve the homelessness problems that councils are facing. I pointed out earlier one of the small technical challenges: the duties that local government will be dealing with will be extended in time and go up, we think, from 56 days to 21 weeks on average under the prevention duty. That is a small price to pay, but ultimately, we would like some help paying for that price. In terms of stability in the private rented sector, this measure is long overdue and will hopefully take some heat out of the sector, but there are all sorts of things going on that mean that it is going to take a long time to turn around the wider issues of local government finance for temporary accommodation, because that is one of the biggest pressures; there are so many councils at the moment that are working hard to procure as much temporary accommodation as possible.

I call Harpreet Uppal.

My question has been answered already.

All right. In that case, I call Claire Hazelgrove.

Q Dr Dawson, I was thrilled to see that you are an external examiner for the University of the West of England, particularly focusing on environmental health. That university sits in my constituency, so thank you for the work you do to support students in our community. You both have a wealth of experience and expertise; thank you for what you have shared already. I want to follow on from the last question and open the floor a bit more to see whether you had any additional thoughts about the Bill’s strengths or any areas where you feel it could be further strengthened—points that our questions so far have not let you speak to. Dr Henry Dawson: Councillor Hug, would you like to go first? Cllr Adam Hug: I think we have identified the key thing for us. Dr Dawson explained some of the challenges around funding stability, and we think that on many different levels it would be extremely helpful if the Bill made it easier to apply selective licensing schemes. Making it easier to use that existing tool would help to provide stability, but ultimately we are just very keen for this legislation to be passed through Parliament so that tenants get the extra protection and councils have certainty about what will be expected of them. We want to ensure that we are properly funded to help us to deliver this important task, but we are keen to get it right.

That brings us perfectly to our finishing time. May I thank both witnesses for their evidence? We will move on to the next panel. Examination of Witness Anny Cullum gave evidence.

16:50:00

Anny Cullum, would you like to introduce yourself? Anny Cullum: I am Anny Cullum, and I am the policy officer at and a founding member of Acorn, an organisation that has been running for the last 10 years. It has been operating like a trade union but on community issues, so we have lots of members who campaign on housing issues and operate effectively as a tenants’ union in around 27 places across England and Wales.

Q Anny, I would like to ask about your view on the enforcement regime. Do you feel that what has been outlined in the Bill and how it is likely to be reflected in the real world will be sufficiently robust both to deter rogue landlords from bad practices and to ensure that tenants are able to both enforce their rights and act in accordance with the law? Anny Cullum: We are pleased to see stricter measures and penalties for landlords laid out in the Bill, and we are particularly happy that new burdens funding will be available to councils to enact them. However, our experience as a tenants’ union is that often councils are so overstretched trying to do the things that they already have to do that tenants are waiting months before getting the support they need. Often their landlords have been given very informal notices and long timescales to get things done, which is no good for a tenant living in a dangerous home. A great thing about this Bill is that section 21s will be banned. Something that we have seen a lot—we had a member in Sheffield go through this recently—is a local authority coming in and investigating poor conditions in a home, giving an informal notice to the landlord, and the landlord then issuing a section 21; the tenant basically has to pay for the fact that they dared to complain. We are really pleased that that will end, but we think there should be more funding for local authorities, not just extra burden funding for the new things, but for the stuff that they already have to do. Our union really supports landlord licensing. We have done campaigns in this area in 11 different places around the country. It is incredibly popular with our members; it came out as one of our top motions at our recent conference. If done well, landlord licensing can be self-funding, and—this is a great thing to think about—it gives councils the ability to inspect homes without the tenant having to raise the issue themselves, so you can find out about bad practice and malpractice without the tenant feeling at risk of complaining. Obviously, they will have fewer risks once this legislation comes through, but it will take a long time for tenants to feel comfortable raising their voices, which our organisation tries to help them to do. We really support the points made by colleagues in the Chartered Institute of Environmental Health. We have campaigned in a lot of places for city-wide landlord licensing, as it is something that our members really care about, but a lot of councils have told us that they are not willing to take the risk of trying to implement wider licensing schemes, because they can be turned down by the Secretary of State. They have said that the work you need to do to put that application in is quite labour-intensive, and they do not want to risk doing all that work for it not to come to fruition. In the spirit of devolution and supporting local authorities to do the job they should be doing, give them back powers to license as much of the city as they want, increase the term to up to 10 years, and do away with the bureaucratic hurdles and the evidence gathering they need to do to get the wider licensing schemes.

Q Given the time, I will ask you a more general question. Do you think—it sounds like you do—that the Bill broadly strikes the right balance and properly delivers for renters? Are there any omissions, things you would like us to address or parts of the Bill you think we need to look at more carefully? Anny Cullum: One area our Members feel particularly strongly about that could be strengthened in the Bill to ensure that it delivers the change we all want to see is measures against illegal evictions. It will be wonderful when section 21 is banned, but we know that there are lots of landlords who issue section 21 eviction notices in response to tenants complaining, because they do not want to maintain their properties. For that unscrupulous group, we are worried that illegal evictions might take the place of section 21 evictions once section 21s are banned. We feel that the Bill could go further to make sure that this is not an easy option for them to take. Hardly any cases of illegal eviction ever make it to court. Safer Renting data showed that there were 26 prosecutions in 2022—the year we have the most recent data for—but it knew about 9,000 cases of illegal eviction. Even when illegal evictions get to court, the fines are £1,000. That is less than my monthly rent. It is not a deterrent for the average landlord. We would like to suggest some changes to make sure that this is not used as a back door to get around the legislation. We would like to see local councils given a statutory duty and the funding to investigate all cases of illegal eviction. Recently we had a member in Leeds whose landlord kept issuing false eviction notices—ones that he could not go to his local council to ask for support with, so he stayed there. The landlord used many different underhand ways to try to force him out, including sending men with knives to cut the wires in his house so that he did not have any electricity. He has been on the phone for hours to his council and the police, and they have not been very helpful. We want to see those bodies empowered with both the duties and the money to act for tenants. Police forces need more training. I have supported tenants who landlords have tried to intimidate out of their house. The police do not seem to know that this is a criminal offence or that they have the ability to act on it, so it would be good if there was training on that. We would also like it to be made easier for people and councils to take these criminal cases forward. It can be quite hard to meet the evidence threshold needed to get a rent repayment order, so we would like to see changes there, which I have laid out in our written evidence. We would also like the civil penalty notices that councils can use to be raised to up to £60,000. I know that sounds high, but being forced out of your home with your family is a horrendous thing to happen to anyone. We want to ensure that this is treated with the seriousness that it deserves. Illegals eviction is one area that my members asked me to speak about. I have also spoken about landlord licensing. A further issue is rent in advance. We are overjoyed that this Bill will end bidding wars, which is something we have campaigned for in different places across the country. We have tried to get agents themselves to pledge not to do it and then mystery shopped them to make sure that they are not. But if you allow agents and landlords at the start of a tenancy to ask, “How many months up front can you give me? Someone else said they could give me a year”, that is another form of bidding war, just at a different point of the process. We conducted some research at the start of this month and found that benefit claimants were three times more likely to be asked for a year’s rent up front than people not claiming benefits. We are pleased that the Government are keen to crack down on discrimination in the private rented sector against people on low incomes, but this is one way that it is happening and we feel that the Bill could do more on that issue. I have two more areas that my members want me to speak to, if that is okay.

Let some other people ask questions and perhaps you will have the opportunity to include those points in your answers.

Q I was interested to hear the rest of your points. One area that is not regulated in the Act is the regulation of letting agents. Is that something that Acorn would like to see happen? Feel free to expand on your points. Anny Cullum: We would like to see letting agents regulated. Especially with the issues around bidding wars and discrimination when you enter a new home or the private sector for the first time, in the majority of cases that will be about your experience with your letting agency. We as Acorn suggest mystery shopping, like when Trading Standards sends kids into shops to mystery shop and sees whether they will sell them alcohol. Maybe we should be sending people into letting agencies and seeing whether they are being discriminated against on the basis of any protected characteristic, but particularly on the basis of being benefit claimants. That part could be strengthened in the Bill.

Q Picking up on the point you made about illegal evictions, is there anything we can do with the landlord database to help with that and some of the other issues you raise? Anny Cullum: I think the landlord database will be excellent. It is important from our point of view that the landlord database includes information for tenants on previous enforcement action that has been taken against landlords, because you can then make an informed choice as a tenant about where you would like to rent. That will be another way to deter landlords from behaving illegally because they know they will have a mark against their name on the register. We hope the register will mean that, rather than tenants trying to compete for homes at the moment, landlords are competing for tenants by behaving in a good way and providing a good service. Having that sort of information on the database would be incredibly helpful.

Q I want to ask about one of the things in your submission, so this may help you to expand on it. I thought your proposal on the right to withhold rent for serious disrepair is interesting: it sounds quite radical on the surface, but in any other sector, if one party was breaching a contract and failing to deliver a service, it would be quite normal to withhold payments. Can you expand at all on how that would work in practice or how you envisage it working? What are Acorn’s views on the proposed regime for managing unaffordable rent hikes, and is it enough? Anny Cullum: On withholding rent for serious disrepair, there are much-improved schemes and action within the Bill around the decent homes standard and improving standards for tenants, but a lot of the action set out to be taken if tenants are experiencing disrepair is retroactive or down the line. We know that councils can take a long time to act and that lots of tenants will not pursue things like rent repayment orders because they just do not have the time and energy. But if someone is living with serious disrepair—things like the damp and mould laid out in Awaab’s law, which we are pleased to see moving over to the private rented sector—we think there could be a mechanism whereby, if it is not fixed within the timescale set out by Awaab’s law, they could withhold their rent and pay it to a third party, which could then give the landlord another timescale within which to solve it. If they did not solve it, the tenant would get the rent paid back. If they did, the landlord would get the rent. That would be an immediate incentive to do the work and stop leaving people in the dangerous conditions we see all the time. Landlords are not necessarily going to worry in the moment about a rent repayment order that a tenant may or may not put in for, which would take ages to go through a court—landlords sometimes do not even pay them anyway—whereas, if you can withhold the rent, that will speed along the process of sorting out mouldy and unsafe homes. So that is the mechanism we would think of. There are lots of considerations as to how it could work. If you consult on bringing Awaab’s law into the private rented sector, that will be a good place to think about the best mechanism to do it. I think your second question was about rent hikes—rent rises.

Q Yes—whether you think that the Bill goes far enough to prevent or manage unaffordable rent hikes. Anny Cullum: Unfortunately, no. We as an organisation at the moment would never recommend that anyone go to the rent tribunal, because we have seen tenants go there and have more rent—a higher percentage—awarded than the landlord was asking for in the first place. We are pleased to see that you are going to get rid of that, but we would like to see rent rises capped at the lower of median wage growth over the last three years or inflation. From my experience, I know most tenants are not going to go to the tribunal. It is brilliant if they do, but a lot of people will accept the rise, or have to move out because they cannot afford it, or get into debt. This means that the people who do go to the tribunal will still be judged against market rents that are way more unaffordable than the one at which they went into their contract. Does that make sense? We are not going to bring rents down just by tinkering with the tribunal. This is mainly about making sure that people can stay in their homes and it does not undermine the Government’s efforts to prevent no-fault evictions. This could easily be used as a no-fault eviction by the back door. You could just put the rent up to a level that you know your tenant cannot afford. We do not think comparing what is affordable with new prices is the best way, so we would advocate for that cap on how much rent could be increased by.

Q Helpfully, the question I wanted to ask has been answered, so I will just give you the opportunity to say anything that you have not been able to cover in other answers, but that you would like to see from the Bill. Anny Cullum: As I said, the five areas that I wanted to cover were illegal evictions, landlord licensing, capping rent up front to one month, withholding rent for disrepair and making renting more affordable. We see even the cap on in-tenancy rent rises as not really about affordability, but mainly about preventing back-door economic evictions or section 21s. We feel that, while this Bill goes far on improving security for renters, it is not going to do enough to address one of the No. 1 problems our tenants and members are coming to us with every day, which is affordability. Rents are outstripping wages all the time. We would like to see the Government set up a commission to look into ways we can bring rents down and keep them affordable once and for all. That is something that we would like to see.

Q Do you agree that the fact that renters can challenge rent hikes under this legislation will, as an action, militate against unreasonable rental increases by landlords? Do you agree that the fact that we are going further in this legislation to make sure that renters have more support and that they can challenge any unreasonable rent hikes in the courts will, in and of itself, have an impact on landlord behaviour? Anny Cullum: It might have a small impact, but I think that the reality is that most landlords will expect most tenants not to make use of that scheme.

Q Surely the threat of it, for most reasonable landlords, which we know the majority are, just like the majority of tenants are reasonable—that behavioural change will be seen and will be a positive thing. Anny Cullum: The problem with this is that it is going to be judged by the market rates—what the going amount for other-sized homes in your local area is for new tenancies—and those are going up all the time. Unless we do something to stop those rates going up all the time, you as my landlord could say, “I want to put your rent up by 50%”, and if I challenge it at the tribunal, if I have been there for three years, for example, I suspect that could be what the going market rent now is in my local area, because the system, as Ben Beadle said earlier today, is absolutely mad and out of control. We need more drastic action to bring down rents, because it is unreasonable to ask someone to pay 50% more than they are paying at the moment, but in some places—

Order. Thank you very much. I am afraid I have to interrupt, because otherwise we will not have time to listen to the Minister. Thank you for your evidence. Examination of Witness

17:10:00

Minister, would you introduce yourself very briefly, please? Matthew Pennycook: Yes. I am Matthew Pennycook and I am the Minister of State for Housing and Planning.

Q I think that today has been a very illuminating opportunity and I would like to ask you, Minister, to share your thinking around three points that have been raised that I think are quite striking. The first question is simply this: what advice have you received so far and what are the plans in respect of the interaction with the Homelessness Reduction Act 2017? That is the point I was asking Councillor Hug about—the Homelessness Reduction Act creating that opportunity for local authorities to act as a guarantor to pay deposits, including rent in advance, to secure a property that would not otherwise be available to that tenant. I ask that question in the light of some of the evidence that we have heard about the impact of guarantors and deposits within the Bill, which I appreciate is not yet a settled matter. Secondly, I invite you to share your thoughts on enforcement authorities, which my hon. Friend the Member for South West Devon highlighted, which are referred to in chapter two. I have an idea why this might be the case, but the Bill creates a specific measure, in clause 104(4), that says: “A county council in England which is not a local housing authority may— (a) enforce the landlord legislation;”— The joy of local government: the Minister will know that county councils are not housing authorities, so it would perhaps be helpful if you could set out the Government’s thinking around that, and say how any advice or engagement may have taken place already with local Government to determine the way forward on that. Matthew Pennycook: Did you say three or two questions?

There are three questions, but I have forgotten the third one, so I will ask you those two questions and then find the third question and come back with it, if I may. Matthew Pennycook: Let me take those two questions forward. The point that I took from Councillor Hug was a very specific one about the trigger for homelessness prevention duties under the Bill. Currently the trigger is a section 21 notice; once the new system is in place, it will be a section 8 notice. In theory, that broadens the scope of the duty, if you like, and therefore we will consider new burdens funding for local authorities as a result, because it could increase the costs to them. On the specific point about county courts, I want to make sure that I have understood the hon. Gentleman properly. I think it might be better if I write to him with the specifics, but I would assume that his question is linked to the fact that in many cases we need to look to assign a lead enforcement authority in particular parts of the country, because of the specific arrangements of governance in particular areas. However, I am more than happy to write to him with further detail on the point about counties.

Q Thank you; I suspect that that is exactly the issue. I have a final point. A number of the witnesses today have made a point that clarity about what is permissive versus what is required is a significant issue for their organisations. In particular, we heard about that in respect of the ombudsman, the tribunal and the courts. I am interested in hearing your thoughts about how this process evolves, and your degree of openness about bringing a higher degree of clarity, either through a greater degree of transparency about what may well find its way into the guidance given to those different organisations, or through those areas that you feel are more appropriate to becoming part of the Bill and then the Act itself. Matthew Pennycook: On the database and the ombudsman, through this Bill we broadly mirror the provisions in the previous Government’s Bill, in the sense that the powers in the Bill are broad framework powers. A lot of the detail will come forward in secondary legislation. There was a debate when we considered the previous Bill, which I think we will return to because it is a worthwhile one, about what prescriptive requirements, if any, you put in the Bill for either the database or the ombudsman. In general, my sense is there is a lot of value in putting most, if not all, of that detail into secondary legislation in a way that allows us to ensure over time that the database and the ombudsman evolve properly with changes to the sector, so you would not want to get too prescriptive. But we can tease out in the debates—I hope we do; we have today—the type of thing we expect the ombudsman to do, and the full range. The Housing Ombudsman made clear that there is a “must” and a “could” on the ombudsman side. Similarly, there is a skimmed and a full-fat version of what you might include on the database. As I have said, some of my contributions indicate that I think the database in particular could be an incredibly powerful tool. We should therefore be thinking through what we might include on it that would help tenants to assess who is a good landlord and who they should be comfortable signing a tenancy agreement with, and give local authorities the relevant information they need to bear down properly on disreputable and particularly criminal landlords. I am happy to be relatively open about that. We can be, and I hope are, fairly open in some of the debates about the type of things we and our constituents might like to see in secondary legislation.

Q I am a younger Member of the House. My generation feel that we are locked into renting, with many people unable to save in order to get on the housing ladder. How do you see the Bill making renting more stable and affordable, so that young people can build up the savings we need? Matthew Pennycook: That is a good question. Like a lot of the debates we have had today, it is slightly out of the scope of the Bill, but you are right to ask it in the sense that the Bill is one part of the Government’s agenda for changing the housing system. There are lots of things we have to do on the home ownership side. You will know from our manifesto that we are committed to a permanent and more comprehensive mortgage guarantee scheme and a first dibs for first-time buyers scheme. In general, the Bill will hopefully empower renters by giving them greater protections, rights and security so that they can stay in their homes longer, build lives in their communities, avoid the risk of homelessness and, in many cases, by bearing down on unreasonable within-tenancy rent hikes, have the opportunity to save, which many do not have at the moment. In answer to your question very specifically, the Bill is part of a wider agenda and touches on the supply issues we have debated. The Bill is not our answer to affordability in the private rented sector, and it cannot be. There are things that go beyond the scope of the Bill. However, in terms of the security, stability and certainty it provides for private renters, who are mainly at the top end of the market but would have, under better circumstances, the chance to save and buy a first home, the Bill will help in a number of ways.

Q I want to ask about service personnel housing, which I raised in the debate on Second Reading. I will go on to ask about the danger of more properties becoming short-term holiday lets—Airbnb-type things; I have a genuinely open mind on that, and I am interested in the Minister’s views on it. On service personnel housing, I think the Minister’s position from the debate on Second Reading was that the Ministry of Defence is looking at it and different circumstances may apply, which would mean that a different form of decent homes standard would be needed. If the decent homes standard is yet to be published, and could potentially be less onerous than the one for the social housing sector, could it not also be applied to MOD housing so that our serving personnel get decent housing? Matthew Pennycook: I do not think there is a huge amount I could add to what I said on Second Reading. We think there are particular characteristics of MOD accommodation that make it difficult to translate the approach we have in mind for driving up standards in the private rented sector and to align that with a wider push on the social housing sector. The MOD are taking forward that work. Yes, there are conversations between officials and Ministers about the crossover, how we might align standards and what the difference is, but I think it is for MOD to take that forward. We think there are good reasons to treat it slightly separately. I can address the short-term lets point, if you would like.

With your permission, Sir Christopher, I want to come back on that point.

Quickly.

Q We seem to be talking about different decent homes standards. We have the social housing sector one, and we are talking about consulting on one for the private rented sector. Is it not the case that the MOD can have one suitable to its needs? Matthew Pennycook: If I have understood you correctly, you are putting to me: why is MOD accommodation not coming within the consultation on a new decent homes standard for both sectors?

I am putting to you that the MOD could have its own decent homes standards. Matthew Pennycook: The MOD is taking forward standards for its accommodation, and it will do that as the Department responsible for that accommodation. It sits outside this legislation, and we had the same debate on the previous Bill. It is an important issue, but it sits outside the scope of this legislation.

Q Is my hon. Friend certain that the Bill, as drafted, provides enough protections against huge advance rent requests? Matthew Pennycook: It is a very good question, and we have touched on this issue, as well as guarantors. I am happy to give the Committee a sense of my thinking, because I have reflected further on the matter in the light of concerns that have been put to us by not only external stakeholders but several hon. Members in the Second Reading debate on 9 October. As I made clear in that debate, the Government have long recognised that demands for extortionate rent in advance place a considerable financial strain on tenants and can exclude certain groups from renting altogether. We are very clear that the practice of landlords demanding large amounts of rent in advance must be prohibited. Although it might be argued that the interaction of the new rent periods in clause 1, which are a month or 28 days, and the existing provisions of the Tenant Fees Act 2019, relating to prohibited payments, provide a measure of protection against requests for large amounts of advance rent, I am increasingly of the view, speaking candidly, that there is a strong case for putting this matter beyond doubt. I am giving careful consideration as to how best that might be achieved in the course of the Bill’s passage.

Q One of the topics that has come up several times today is whether grounds for possession should all be discretionary, or whether some should be mandatory and some discretionary. I understand that, when the previous Renters (Reform) Bill was going through, you were in favour of them all being discretionary. Matthew Pennycook: That is not correct.

Okay, then this is an invitation for you to talk us through your rationale, because that was my understanding. While I am at it, if there is anything where your mind has changed since the previous Bill, could you briefly talk us through why? Matthew Pennycook: It is important to give context for the debates on the previous Bill and why, in certain circumstances, we were probing the Minister on making grounds discretionary rather than mandatory, and whether we were pressing the then Minister on additional protections for tenants relating to some of those grounds. The rationale for that was ensuring that the grounds, if they were mandatory, would not be abused. I suppose where my thinking has changed on many of them—I will continue to think on whether we have done enough on specific grounds for possession to protect tenants against abuse—is that the other actions we have taken in the Bill provide the protection we need. I will give an example. On grounds 1 and 1A, where the previous protected period was smaller and the previous re-let period was much smaller—three months, not the 12 that we are proposing—in our view there was clear scope for abuse there. In many parts of the country, particularly hot rental markets—including London, and I am sure it is the same in Bristol—landlords are quite willing to suffer three-month void periods because the rents are so high. In a sense, if that is your re-let period on those mandatory grounds, you can get rid of what you consider a problem tenant, such as one who has complained perhaps entirely appropriately about damp, mould and other hazards. If you wait the three-month void period, then re-let, you have effectively recreated section 21 by the back door. I think we have dealt with the abuse, which is from memory where we were probing the Minister about the discretionary or mandatory distinction. We have provided protections in other ways in the majority of cases. I am giving consideration, as I say, to some of the grounds and whether we have quite got sufficient protections in place. I think Justin Bates KC, for example, raised ground 6A, where action is rightly taken against the landlord whose practices need bearing down on, but the tenant should not suffer in that regard.

Q I am sure the Minister will agree that we have heard some illuminating evidence today from excellent panellists. I am wondering what he sees as the key takeaways for the Bill. Matthew Pennycook: I welcome that question; it is an open one, and I will have to think on my feet in my response. I think a number of the debates will run through the Bill. Supply is one of those. I am clear that we do not want an exodus of landlords from the sector, but I have seen absolutely no evidence of that. It is a threat that has been bandied about for many years now, ever since the previous Government announced their intention to abolish section 21 no-fault notices. The size of the private rented sector has doubled since the early 2000s. There has been an outflux of smaller landlords, particularly overgeared buy-to-let landlords, which is mainly a result of the section 24 tax changes that George Osborne introduced in 2015, explicitly to slow the growth of the private rented sector. So there has been an exit of certain types of landlord from the sector, but we have certainly not seen an exodus. The feedback I have had from landlords over recent months and in the previous Parliament is that the most damaging thing for many was the uncertainty about whether reform was coming through in any form. That is why we felt we needed to act quickly. In general, good landlords have absolutely nothing to fear from the new system. We think it provides a framework in which they can continue to invest and operate. Another point that has been prevalent in the debate is protections for renters against unreasonable within-tenancy rent hikes. In designing the Bill, I have been clear where we have overhauled and strengthened its provisions to strike that balance. We do not want to do anything that could potentially make things much more difficult for tenants, which is why the Government are not advocating rent controls in the Bill. The Scottish experience is instructive of what can happen as an unintended consequence, and we think there would be an impact on supply, quality and standards, as evidence around the world shows. In many cases there is a judgment call on students and other possession grounds, and it is is a fine balance as to whether we have got it right in the Bill. But there are competing pressures and disincentives in a system—I am being incredibly candid with the Committee here—that has not been overhauled for 30 years. Lots of the speculation about how the tribunal will operate, and how many section 8 cases will go there, is in some ways all completely speculative. We have a sense of what we want to see and how to address the risks, but until the system is properly bedded in, I do not think anyone will know what we have to do in the design to ensure that we have the balance right and will not therefore see the tribunal overwhelmed. We want to see more people to go to the tribunal. We want section 8 cases to go through the courts more efficiently. We absolutely concede the need for court improvements, and we are working closely with the MOJ on those—I have given some examples in response to the question about what we are taking forward. There is a balance that needs to be struck, and I think we struck the right balance in overhauling the Bill in the specific ways we have, while keeping—I gave the Conservative party the credit for this at the time—the sensible provisions that were in the previous Bill, which we think need to remain at the core of the legislation.

Q I have a quick question. One of the things that came up with several witnesses was the issue of parity between privately rented social housing and housing associations, in particular with the increasing standards. That came through particularly strongly on the rural piece. Great things have been done to decarbonise social housing stock, which brings up standards. If such a measure is to be rolled out within three months of Royal Assent or whatever, will the Budget next week include any grounds or capacity in future funding for that parity, especially for those rural homes that are harder to upgrade, given their nature? Matthew Pennycook: Specifically on rural housing, we have to think through how the decent homes standard will deal with particular challenges in certain types of stock in certain parts of the country. As a point of principle, what we will try to do in the decent homes standard consultation is to take a view on how that should apply across both sectors. Broadly, that is my instinct across the board. It is the same with regards to the ombudsman. There is a strong case—our preferred option as things stand, although no final decision has been made—for the Housing Ombudsman Service to take on the role of the PRS ombudsman. There is a good case for a streamlined cross-tenure service. Broadly, we want the same standards to apply across the board. Funding is another example of where there are things that the Bill touches on, but that are not within the scope of the Bill—the minimum energy efficiency standard, for example, has been mentioned a couple of times. That, however, is a Department for Energy Security and Net Zero consultation, which we launched this year. There is also a wider package around the warm homes plan, further details of which will come forward in due course, but that does not sit within my Department either. It is not necessarily part of the Bill, although decent homes will have to account for those changes, such as those on the MEES front.

Thank you, Minister. That brings us to the end of the evidence session. I thank all Members for participating in what has been a very constructive exchange of views. Ordered, That further consideration be now adjourned. —(Gen Kitchen.)

17:31:00

Adjourned till Tuesday 29 October at twenty-five minutes past Nine o’clock.

Written evidence reported to the House

RRB 01 Dr Edward Kirton-Darling and associates (on Rent Repayment Orders)

RRB 02 Dr Edward Kirton-Darling and associates (suggested amendments)

RRB 03 Laura Delow

RRB 04 Jim Dickinson

RRB 05 Richard Bate

RRB 06 Leonie Cooke

RRB 07 Michael Zell-Davis

RRB 08 Citizens Advice

RRB 09 Unipol Student Homes

RRB 10 Sarah Galloway

RRB 11 Dogs Trust

RRB 12 Reapit

RRB 13 RSPCA

RRB 14 ACORN the Union

RRB 15 Training for Professionals

RRB 16 The Lettings Industry Council

RRB 17 a PRS Landlord from the North West

RRB 18 Alex Shinder

RRB 19 Michael Crofts BSC(Hons), ARICS (retired)

RRB 20 Ian Stern

RRB 21 Maureen Roscoeto

RRB 22 Tony Wilson

RRB 23 Get Living

RRB 24 The Property Institute

RRB 25 London Councils

RRB 26 James Scollard

RRB 27 Renters’ Reform Coalition

RRB 28 Mars Petcare UK and Battersea Dogs & Cats Home

RRB 29 University of Manchester Students’ Union

RRB 30 Generation Rent