Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-jury Trial Provisions) Order 2025

Considered in Grand Committee

16:56:00

Moved by

That the Grand Committee do consider the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 (Extension of Duration of Non-jury Trial Provisions) Order 2025. Relevant document: 26th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

My Lords, this draft order extends provisions in the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007 that enable criminal trials to continue to be conducted without a jury in Northern Ireland, where certain conditions are met, for a further two-year period until 31 July 2027. Otherwise, these provisions would expire on 31 July this year. The non- jury trial provisions in the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, which apply only in Northern Ireland, provide for a non-jury trial in exceptional cases where certain conditions are met that create a risk that the administration of justice might be impaired if the trial were to be conducted by a jury. The decision to proceed with a non-jury trial is made by the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland, following a request from the Police Service of Northern Ireland or the Public Prosecution Service. In a non-jury trial, a single judge sits alone to hear the case and must give reasons for a conviction. Any person convicted before a non-jury trial has a right of appeal on either sentence or conviction without leave. Following a 12-week public consultation and consideration of the indicators previously identified by the working group on non-jury trials, as well as wider information about the security situation in Northern Ireland, the Secretary of State has determined that these non-jury trial provisions continue to be necessary to uphold the fair and effective administration of justice in Northern Ireland. I reassure noble Lords that in Northern Ireland today there is a strong presumption of a jury trial in all criminal cases. In 2024, less than 1% of all Crown Court cases in Northern Ireland were conducted without a jury. However, in the small proportion of cases in which they are exercised, the non-jury trial provisions not only protect potential jurors from threat of intimidation but offer certain defendants protection from the possibility of a hostile or fearful jury. To further reassure your Lordships’ Committee, the Government ran a 12-week public consultation from 9 December 2024 to 3 March 2025. Only 17 responses were received through the public consultation: nine were in favour of extending the NJT provisions for a further two years, three were opposed and five neither clearly supported nor objected. The responses in favour typically cited the continued presence of paramilitary control and coercion in Northern Ireland communities, meaning that victims and families fear participating in the criminal justice system and that there is continued risk of jury intimidation. Some of the responses against extending the provision suggested that the alternative non-jury trial provisions in the Criminal Justice Act 2003 could instead be relied upon in Northern Ireland. However, as pointed out by some responses in favour of the extension, the threshold for the use of these provisions is much higher than under the 2007 Act. This makes it unsuited to deal with the unique challenges associated with Northern Ireland, as it would expose jurors to an unacceptable risk of intimidation and potentially undermine the administration of justice. In addition, while the 2003 Act includes provisions for a non-jury trial where there is jury tampering, it does not mitigate against the risk of jury bias, which the consultation responses have demonstrated is an ongoing risk in Northern Ireland. The full details of these responses were published in the Government’s consultation response document, which can be found on the NIO pages on GOV.UK. This was published on 6 May, the day on which this draft order was laid before the House.

17:00:00

As well as the public consultation, the Secretary of State’s decision has been informed by the indicators identified by the working group on non-jury trials in 2022. This group was established following recommendations by the former Independent Reviewer of the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007—the IRJSA—and was composed of representatives from the Public Prosecution Service, the Police Service of Northern Ireland, the court service, the Bar, the Law Society and other independent organisations.

The group developed a set of indicators to assist the Secretary of State in determining whether these non-jury trial provisions remain necessary in Northern Ireland. These indicators included several indices of the current levels of paramilitary activity and intimidation in Northern Ireland. In conjunction with the consultation responses, the Secretary of State considered these indicators and determined that they demonstrate that it would not be appropriate to remove the non-jury trial provisions at this time.

The Secretary of State and I are aware of the unease that some may feel about the extension of these measures. I give thanks to all those who have worked courageously over the years to keep the people of Northern Ireland safe. From these efforts, real progress has been made since the worst days of the Troubles to reduce the threat posed by paramilitarism. However, this threat has not reduced sufficiently. In the period since the last extension of these provisions, the threat level from Northern Ireland-related terrorism was severe, until it was lowered in March 2024 to substantial, where it has remained.

Regrettably, the continued presence of paramilitary control and coercion in some Northern Ireland communities necessitates the extension of these provisions. I am aware that this will be the ninth extension of non-jury trial provisions, which were designed to be temporary, but the safety of the people of Northern Ireland is paramount and the administration of justice cannot risk being impaired in our society, which has come so far since the dark days of the troubled past.

The normalisation of justice and security arrangements in Northern Ireland, when it is safe to do so and compatible with the interests of justice, is a priority for this Government. Therefore, without prejudging any future consultation, the Secretary of State has asked officials to examine over the next two years how Northern Ireland could move away from these provisions when the time is right. However, at this time, further progress on the Northern Ireland security situation is required before we can be confident that non-jury trial provisions are no longer required.

The Government will of course continue to work strategically with security partners to tackle the threat from Northern Ireland-related terrorism. That is why the Government have increased the funding for the PSNI’s additional security fund to £37.8 million and confirmed £8 million for the Executive’s programme on paramilitarism and organised crime.

I hope I have demonstrated to noble Lords that the Secretary of State did not take this decision lightly and that all of the relevant information was considered. I am sure that I can count on the support of noble Lords across the Committee—at least, I hope so. Although our aim is to normalise all security arrangements as soon as it is safe to do so, for the moment, these provisions remain necessary to safeguard the administration of justice. I beg to move.

My Lords, I have two principal reasons for speaking to this instrument. The first is that I currently chair the Northern Ireland Scrutiny Committee of this House, and therefore am very sensitive to issues that affect the communities in Northern Ireland. One of the issues that is absolutely of the greatest importance is the way in which the justice system operates. My second, more particular reason is that I was the Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and the Independent Reviewer of National Security Arrangements in Northern Ireland in 2007. I prepared a report that led to the amendment of what were, at that stage, called the Diplock courts—and often still are—in 2007. I recommended that the system should have some instrumental changes made to it but that, in principle, the courts should continue. Critics rather wryly called them the “I can’t believe it’s not Diplock” courts after I made my recommendations. I have been following those courts, which have held non-jury-trials ever since, for the past 18 years, in some detail. I have spoken to lawyers practising in those courts and to some judges who have worked in them, and obviously I have tried to form my own judgments. I absolutely agree with the Minister that, unfortunately, at the present time, it is not yet possible to say that there should be only jury trials for offences involving sectarian issues and aspects of terrorism or paramilitary activity. However, that is not to say that I believe that this system should continue indefinitely into the future; happily, the Minister has not suggested that today. It is notable that the number of non-jury trials has been reduced in recent years. I had hoped that that would happen; it has taken rather longer than I had hoped, but I am pleased to see that that has now occurred. There have been some recent disturbances in Northern Ireland, which reaffirm my belief that there are still difficult sectarian issues, including bullying within communities and intimidation in some parts of them. That said—it will not surprise your Lordships to hear this from someone who has been at the Bar for over 50 years doing criminal cases—I believe that part of what is sometimes called the holy grail of our criminal justice system is jury trial. There may be changes in the jury trial system in England and Wales shortly; we await the Leveson report. I am sure that many of us lawyers in your Lordships’ House will view them with all of our critical faculties—but, of course, objectively at all times. In this situation, it is right to extend these courts on the basis of need. Therefore, I empirically support what is proposed by the Government this afternoon.

My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the chairman of the Northern Ireland Scrutiny Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile. I thank my noble friend the Minister for her presentation of this statutory instrument. I should indicate that I am a member of the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee in your Lordships’ House. Following on from the noble Lord, I also renounce and reject violence from all paramilitary organisations in Northern Ireland. It is wrong now as it was wrong over all the years of the Troubles; that point cannot be overemphasised. The murder and terrorism were wrong. They took the lives of innocent civilians in many instances and robbed families of loved ones. Those scars remain—that is a fact of life. However, 27 years after the Good Friday agreement of 1998, 19 years after the St Andrews agreement of October 2006 when the decision was taken to devolve policing and justice—I well remember being there—and 15 years after when, in 2010, the legislative position on policing and justice was enacted and the first Minister for Justice was appointed, I get a sense of déjà vu. We debated this issue back in 2021. When will actual normalisation take place so that we no longer require non-jury trials? As a democrat, I do not feel happy about or sit comfortably on non-jury trials. I was brought up and reared in Northern Ireland and come from the democratic Irish nationalist community. There were many rigours in all such jury systems. Can my noble friend the Minister say whether, from the Government’s research, they can provide a guesstimate of when we can move to normalisation? I note, as the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, said, that such trials are not in total use any more in Northern Ireland. There were 12 non-jury trials in the Crown Court in 2023, in comparison to a total of 1,423, so they are not used readily. However, I am conscious of the fact that there is still evidence of paramilitarism; this was clearly demonstrated some weeks ago when people in certain communities were bullied by paramilitarism and paramilitaries, because you could translate sectarianism in this instance into racism. Several people involved in that were, it was suggested, also involved in other acts of terrorism, threats and intimidation. I ask my noble friend the Minister: when is normalisation likely? This is all related to the legacy issue. Currently, the Secretary of State is considering the repeal of the legacy Act. When will the new legacy legislation come forward? I know that that is circumscribed by certain legal instruments in certain courts because, yesterday, I had the opportunity here to meet two daughters of Sean Brown, who was brutally murdered in March 1997 in Bellaghy. There is a need for a full investigation and inquiry because there are lots of twists in the tale of why he was murdered. His family need to know that; they need truth and justice. With that, I understand the reasons for the extension. It is not something that I sit happily beside, but I hope that we are moving to full normalisation and that we will not see an extension for another two years in two years’ time.

My Lords, I support this draft order extending the provisions in the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, which will, for a further two years until 31 July 2027, enable criminal trials to continue to be concluded without a jury in Northern Ireland if certain conditions are met. The provisions are there to protect potential jurors from intimidation and offer defendants protection from potentially biased jurors in specific cases. The extension is also informed by the security situation in Northern Ireland, including the fact that the threat level from Northern Ireland-related terrorists has remained at “substantial” since March 2024. As we know, non-jury trials take place only in exceptional circumstances. Under the old Diplock scheme, the default was a non-jury trial for certain offences. I entirely understand the Government’s reasons for wanting to extend the measures, given the circumstances in Northern Ireland; those have already been touched on. We know that, in the past weeks, we have witnessed serious violence across Northern Ireland. Police officers were seriously injured, property was attacked and were people attacked in their own homes. Let me say this clearly: the violence that we have witnessed on our streets in recent days cannot be justified and must be condemned. We have people in Northern Ireland who want to take us back to those days but we, as democrats, must resist that. The other issue I want to raise—the Minister will be aware of it—is the resourcing and funding of the PSNI. It has continued to fall over a number of years. In fact, the current budget is simply inadequate and the pressures on the service are unsustainable, certainly in the long term. The PSNI is currently running at an estimated deficit of £34 million, which is a huge amount of money, and the force requires significant financial investment over the next number of years. We know that the chief constable has touched on this issue many times because, at this moment in time, we have 3,300 police officers in Northern Ireland; the chief constable is saying that, for the police in Northern Ireland to do the job that they need to do, that figure needs to be raised to over 7,000. This can be done only by the proper resourcing of policing in Northern Ireland but that has not been the case. I appeal to the Minister and this Labour Government: if they seriously want good, effective policing across Northern Ireland, it is important that the PSNI is properly resourced.

17:15:00

I will ask the Minister a question, although she may have answered it already. I am interested in hearing from her about the circumstances in which certificates have been issued in the past year, if that is possible—maybe it is not. Also, in 2023-24, how many certificates did the Director of Public Prosecutions issue for non-jury trials, and how many were refused? If the Minister does not have the figures at this moment in time, I am sure that she can send them to me.

We are certainly supportive. As the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, said, we need to get to a point where we do not need non-jury trials in Northern Ireland and we, hopefully, come to a normal society.

My Lords, I thank the Minister for her presentation. I am pleased to support the order. We all have a responsibility to ensure that peace, stability and justice are protected and long-lasting. It is important to acknowledge that good progress regarding the security situation in Northern Ireland has been made and that the threat to jurors has, in some instances, been reduced. However, recently collected evidence confirms that there remains concern about the potential for jury intimidation and bias, particularly in cases with paramilitary connections. Although, as we have heard, there are only a small number of cases where a non-jury trial is necessary, it remains my view that the current provision, though far from perfect, should continue to serve Northern Ireland as a necessary function in supporting the effective delivery of the criminal justice process. Naturally, there is a certain reluctance to renew such exceptional provisions—like others, I wish that such measures were a thing of the past—but, given Northern Ireland’s exceptional security complexity and the spectre of the threat of intimidation from dissident paramilitaries and other criminal elements, the renewal of the non-jury provisions is necessary. Of course, it is important that we have safeguards. These are built into this, in that decisions for non-jury trials are made on a case-by-case basis. Of course, the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland must suspect that one or more of the four safeguard conditions are met. Another protection is that any person convicted before a non-jury court has the right of appeal against sentence or conviction without leave and has the opportunity to have the judgment against them explained; of course, that is not available if they are convicted by a jury. It is my hope that the day will come when measures such as those before us today are unnecessary, but, unfortunately, the consultation and evidence clearly show that that stage has not been reached. The onus is on all of us to continue to work maturely in order to work out practical ways forward towards achieving a more normalised society in Northern Ireland. Hopefully, we will not be back here in two years’ time to renew this order. One point of concern that I have regarding non-jury trials is that it appears that they are sometimes subject to considerable delay. I believe that this should be investigated. Of course, jury trials in Northern Ireland are also delayed sometimes, which is a problem that needs to be addressed. Finally, almost 26 years after the signing of the Belfast agreement, we still have the curse of paramilitary organisations operating across Northern Ireland. Does the Minister agree that it is time that these paramilitary organisations left the stage without being offered more financial incentives?

My Lords, before I turn to the instrument before the Committee, as this is a Northern Ireland debate and it is 1 July, I want to take a moment to reflect that today marks the 109th anniversary of the first day of the Battle of the Somme. We remember the heroic sacrifice of the men of the 36th (Ulster) Division at Thiepval on that day in 1916 and, later in September, that of the 16th (Irish) Division at Guillemont and Ginchy. I had the honour of representing His Majesty’s Government at the Somme on a number of occasions, including in my last official engagement as a Minister on this day last year; there was never a more solemn, moving or poignant duty. I turn to the instrument before the Committee. The Opposition support the ninth extension, under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, for a further two years of non-jury trials in a small number of cases. As the Minister who extended these measures in your Lordships’ House in 2023, I could probably repeat almost word for word what I said a little over two years ago; I am sure that the Committee will be relieved if I do not do so. As has been pointed out, a non-jury trial may be permitted if the defendant is associated with a proscribed organisation or if the offence being tried is in connection with religious or political hostility. Such cases are high-profile and continue to provoke strong opinion across the community in Northern Ireland. In such circumstances, the risks of jury intimidation and juror bias remain very real probabilities. As such, I agree with the Minister that these measures are both necessary and proportionate. With that said, it is also worth considering the very real progress that has been made. As the Minister pointed out, and as was recognised by the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, the number of non-jury trials is now around 0.7% of the total number of trials in Northern Ireland and has been at that level for the past few years. To put that into further perspective, that is a total of 10 cases out of some 1,500 in the Crown Court in 2024; this compares to around 300 a year during the peak of the old Diplock system in the 1980s. I noted with interest the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, who is a distinguished former Independent Reviewer of Terrorism Legislation and, now, the chair of the scrutiny committee. I, probably like him, have lost count of the number of times I have sat in rooms in Washington and New York and had to explain to Irish-American audiences the difference between the old Diplock system and the system that we have had since 2007. We all look forward to the day when all trials will be conducted in front of juries and these measures can lapse, but we remain some way from that today. The fact that these measures are required reminds us that, although life in Northern Ireland has in many respects been transformed over the past 30 years since the ceasefires and the subsequent Belfast agreement of 1998, there remains a potent terrorist threat. Although the threat level went down from “severe” to “substantial” in March 2024, there can be absolutely no room for complacency. I am always conscious that the difference between those two threat levels of “substantial” and “severe” is one word—“highly”—because “substantial” means that an attack is likely while “severe” means that an attack is highly likely. So we cannot be complacent. There persist in Northern Ireland small numbers of people determined to pursue their political agenda through acts of terrorism. Although their actions will always ultimately fail in their objectives, they retain both lethal intent and capability. However, they will never succeed because the future of Northern Ireland will only ever be decided by democracy and consent—never by violence. That has been the determination of successive Governments over many years, including the ones in which I served, and I believe that it is the determination of His Majesty’s current Government today. The reason why there are not more successful—if I can use that word—national security attacks in Northern Ireland is down to the skill, professionalism and bravery of the Police Service of Northern Ireland and our other security agencies, which do so much to thwart them. Like the Minister, I place on the record once again our unstinting support for them, along with our admiration and thanks; we owe them a huge debt of gratitude for the superb job that they do. In that context, I genuinely welcome the additional security funding for the PSNI that was announced by the Government in the recent spending review. The need for that additional security funding was recognised and delivered by the then coalition Government in 2010 and continued by its Conservative successors. I am pleased that it has been maintained by the current Government; it is of huge importance for the PSNI in its efforts to keep the people of Northern Ireland safe and secure. In conclusion, the extension of these measures, though regrettable, remains necessary in certain cases to ensure that the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland continues to function. I was struck by the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Browne of Belmont, on the delays in the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland. It seems that it can take an interminable time for cases to come to trial; every effort really does need to be made to try to speed up the process. I agree with the Minister that no Government in the United Kingdom treat this issue of the dispensing of juries in criminal trials lightly. We all share the hope that, sooner rather than later, the day will come when we can dispense with these measures. Until that day comes, however, we have a duty to extend them; the Opposition therefore support the order before the Committee today.

First, I thank all noble Lords—and the noble Baroness—for their support for the extension of the non-jury trial provisions. Before I move on to the substance of what we have been talking about, I want to reference something that the noble Lord, Lord Caine, rightly raised: today is the anniversary of the Somme. Unfortunately, due to parliamentary time and business in both Houses, no Minister is able to go to Northern Ireland today, but the Secretary of State laid a wreath at the Cenotaph to recognise the service of and remember those who lost their lives and fought to give us everything that we are discussing today around our access to a fair justice system. I also thank the noble Lord for making sure that every anniversary is always referenced in the House. He taught me well when I took over his former role on Northern Ireland. His first piece of advice was to make sure that I always know which anniversary it is; I am grateful for both that advice and his ongoing support. We are using an exceptional system that is used only in very limited circumstances. There is rightly a presumption for a jury trial in all cases. As I have said, and as we have touched on, non-jury trials account for less than 1% of all Crown Court cases in Northern Ireland. The Government are committed to ending the non-jury trial system under the Justice and Security (Northern Ireland) Act 2007, but now is not the right time to do so; I am very pleased that noble Lords recognise this. This Government are committed to tackling the threat from Northern Ireland-related terrorism, as the previous Government were, and to supporting the Northern Ireland Executive’s programme to tackle paramilitarism. However, we believe that further progress on the security situation is required before we can be confident that these non-jury trials are no longer required. I want to touch on some of the points made by noble Lords; I hope to answer all their questions but, if I do not, I will reflect on them in Hansard and write to noble Lords. It is incredibly important that we touch on the current situation with regard to paramilitarism in Northern Ireland. As has been said very eloquently in your Lordships’ House, not only was it was never justified; it is not justified today. It requires a concerted effort, from those of us who believe in democracy and peace, to keep fighting the good fight. Perhaps that is not the appropriate language to have used. Violence and criminality have no place in Northern Ireland. They serve only to hold us back from decades of progress as we move forwards towards a peaceful and prosperous future in Northern Ireland. I turn to some of the specific points. My noble friend Lady Ritchie touched on the number of non-jury trial cases in 2023. As the noble Lord, Lord Caine, stated, it was 10 cases out of 1,501 last year, or 0.7%. There has been a clear trajectory downwards in those numbers. On ending the temporary provisions, which I think all noble Lords agree is where we need to end up—as was raised by the noble Lords, Lord Carlile and Lord Caine, and my noble friend Lady Ritchie—none of us wants to see this system of non-jury trials in place for longer than needed, but much depends on the security situation. While I wish I could tell my noble friend when the security situation will be resolved, that is unfortunately beyond my gift. I wish I could resolve it tomorrow. The Government will keep the provisions under constant review and continue to ask the independent reviewer of the justice and security Act to review the operation of non-jury trials in their annual report. As I said in opening, without prejudging any future consultation, the Secretary of State has asked officials to examine, over the next two years, how Northern Ireland can move away from these provisions when the time is right.

17:30:00

My noble friend Lady Ritchie raised the case of Sean Brown. We have discussed this many times and she is aware that the Government have huge sympathy for Bridie Brown and her family, who have suffered so much since the murder of Sean. The Government have applied for permission from the Supreme Court to appeal because the Brown judgment raises matters of constitutional significance that go beyond this individual case, but that does not mean that we do not recognise the family’s need for answers.

On the question about certificates raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hay, I have the statistics available so do not have to write to him. In fact, I have statistics for every year since 2007, just in case he wants to test me on different years. Seventeen certificates were issued in 2024 and five were rejected. On the basis of a quick scan, that is not an unusual level of rejections and applications.

The noble Lord also asked about the current number of PSNI police officers. As of 23 June, there are 6,191 police officers. I appreciate that Jon Boutcher has made it very clear that more need to come, which is why the Northern Ireland Assembly and Executive have put forward a plan for additional officers. I am pleased to have seen the reports and detail of the PSNI workforce recovery and the additional £200 million that has been allocated. There is a challenge for us with PSNI funding and we have discussed it on many occasions in the Chamber and Grand Committee—

My noble friend will recall that I and others discussed with her in the last few weeks trying to ring-fence funding in the Cabinet Office and Downing Street specifically for policing in Northern Ireland and to transfer it to the Northern Ireland Executive to ensure that it is used not by other government departments but simply for policing. Has there been any progress on that?

17:33:00

Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.

17:43:00

My Lords—

I do not know where I got 3,000 from—I meant to say 6,000. I apologise to the Committee and ask for correction.

I thank the noble Lord for his correction. He did worry me a little that something had happened within the PSNI that I had missed. I have my own slight correction to make, which is more of a technicality: the £200 million I announced for police recruitment has been approved by the Department of Finance but needs executive approval, which it is yet to receive. I wanted to clarify that before I got myself in trouble. Regarding the very genuine question from my noble friend and many others on the ring-fencing of the PSNI grant, I understand why this is such an issue. We increased the budget during the SR to £19.3 billion, which is the highest amount on record. However, we must be clear on what devolution is and is not. The money has been sent to Northern Ireland; it is there, and it is now up to the politicians in Northern Ireland to prioritise funding. However, as noble Lords will be aware, we have ensured that there is ring-fencing for the additional security fund, and we continue to work daily with the Executive to secure additional funding. On the delay in trials raised by the noble Lord, Lord Browne, while the Justice Minister for England is here and definitely heard that request, I will clarify for the record that the issue of delays in the projection of non-jury trials was raised by two respondents to the consultation on how long this was taking. One respondent who objected to the extension of the provisions in particular raised the concern that a judge sitting alone could adjourn the case for a longer period of time than would be possible if a jury had been sitting. However, this should be seen against the backdrop of the wider criminal justice system being subject to delay. The justice system is devolved, and it is for the Department of Justice to lead. It has work under way to address some of the causes, including work to reform committal processes. PSNI is also progressing work to improve the timeliness of case file submissions to tackle delay. In March 2025, the devolved Minister of Justice welcomed the allocation of additional funding to progress reforms within the justice system, and £20.45 million has been allocated to help speed up and transform the criminal justice system.

I do not wish to detain the Committee for much longer. The noble Baroness rightly said that the criminal justice system is devolved in Northern Ireland, but these are cases that involve national security issues, which are, of course, a responsibility of His Majesty’s Government and the Secretary of State. In former times it was very common practice for the Secretary of State and the Justice Minister to have frequent meetings at which they would discuss these matters. Could she assure me that these are continuing and that the Secretary of State regularly engages with the Justice Minister to try to speed up these delays in the criminal justice system?

Like magic, a piece of paper has arrived that confirms that the Secretary of State—

Your officials are brilliant.

My officials are absolutely brilliant. It confirms that the Secretary of State engages with the Justice Minister regularly on issues of shared interest and concern, and this obviously includes issues pertaining to national security and will continue to do so. I will endeavour to get an update on anything else that is going on and write to the noble Lord. I think I have answered most of the substantive points, but there are a couple of others that I want to touch on. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, for his previous work on counterterrorism and the work that he is doing with the Northern Ireland committee. That is a step towards normalisation, which has been a theme as we talk about some of these issues. Making sure that normalisation happens, in terms of both counterterrorism and the operation of our communities, is key because we are democrats. Making sure that we are being held to account is key. My noble friend Lady Ritchie asked when legacy legislation will come forward. She knows me well as a Whip, and I am adamant and clear that we will definitely bring forward such legislation when parliamentary time allows. All noble Lords will be aware that this was a manifesto commitment and was in the King’s Speech, and I expect to spend many hours in Committee debating it with all of you.

I am grateful to the Minister, and I appreciate that she cannot give a time commitment on the introduction of legislation, but can she confirm whether the Government intend to set out the next steps on legacy before the Summer Recess?

I can assure the noble Lord that he and I are likely to be in correspondence before Summer Recess.

On the £200 million that has been allocated to policing, have the Executive received that amount? There is some confusion on the £200 million. We are getting information that, until now, they have received only £5 million. Clarity on the £200 million would be important, especially when it comes to policing. Has it been approved by the Executive?

I believe it is still waiting to be approved by the Executive. But in terms of the block grant, one of the things that we have been able to reassure the Executive on is what their funding is going to be over the next three years, and that gives them a level of confidence to move forward. I have received another clever bit of paper. Yesterday’s June monitoring round announcement confirmed that the Executive have agreed to give the Northern Ireland Department of Justice first call on up to £7 million in future monitoring rounds in the current financial year, towards the first year of the PSNI workforce recovery business case. That is the £7 million, not the £200 million. But I want to reassure noble Lords before I sit down or give way that this is a devolved matter, and how they are allocating their money is a matter for colleagues in Belfast.

As a former Minister in the Northern Ireland Executive, I say that the Minister will appreciate that that sort of commitment from the June monitoring process is not really a commitment because I know personally that these sorts of commitments were made to me as Housing Minister and they never necessarily materialised. I ask whether it is possible for her, as a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office, to impress upon the Northern Ireland Executive the importance of the definite allocation of funding for policing because the chief constable needs it in order to deal with current policing pressures in advance of dealing with those issues to do with legacy that are pre devolution.

Following on from the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, there is confusion about this £200 million, where it has gone, who is allocating it and so on. We need clarification around the allocation of future funding for police.

My Lords, what I can say is that this is a good first step to getting police on the streets. The very fact that we are having this discussion about how we are going to spend more money that the UK Government have allocated to the Northern Ireland Executive is a good step. I think all noble Lords would agree that John Boutcher is an extraordinary public servant and has made an effective argument as to why he needs additional resourcing. The onus is therefore on the Northern Ireland Executive to make sure that they are communicating clearly with him about next steps. On that note, I think I have answered all questions from noble Lords, and I hope that they will continue to support the adoption of the SI.

Motion agreed.