My Lords, I am grateful to all Members of your Lordships’ House who have contributed to what has been a thoughtful and wide-ranging debate on a very important issue.
Today’s debate has been very well supported. I hope that noble Lords will understand that I will not be able to cover in my summary every issue that has been raised, but I will endeavour to respond to as many of the themes and questions as possible. Of course, I will be happy to have further discussions with noble Lords, and we will have the opportunity for these ahead of and during future stages of the Bill. I too look forward to Committee.
It seems many hours ago since my noble friend Lady Thornton spoke of the measures in this Bill being a further step along the way. I share that view, which has been expressed by a number of other noble Lords, particularly those in what I shall politely call the cohort of former Health Ministers. I do not know what the collective term is, but I am sure we will work on that. I am in that cohort, and I too worked towards the initial smoking ban in 2007. As a Public Health Minister, I introduced the display regulations we are now so used to. When we introduced the original ban in 2007, no one could have dreamed of the challenges we have today, including vaping; this was not something we had considered. It was also important to go with the public, which is why I was keen to outline the public’s support in my opening remarks.
I am grateful for the challenge. I have heard many concerns being expressed today, along with outright opposition to the Bill. I have also heard much support for the Bill, although there are rightly questions about the measures in it. Many noble Lords have been supportive, including the noble Lords, Lord Lansley and Lord Stevens, who assisted me by anticipating some of the arguments that will be deployed. The noble Baronesses, Lady Redfern and Lady Smith, and many others, were also very supportive.
I am grateful to my colleagues on both Front Benches for taking a line similar to the one I am about to take in respect of the Chief Medical Officer’s views. These include:
“If you smoke, vaping is safer; if you don’t smoke, don’t vape.”
I am also very grateful to noble Lords who were good enough to join me yesterday at a briefing with the Chief Medical Officer and officials, which I certainly found helpful. I know that others did too.
I understand that there are different perspectives on a number of issues, and I now turn to some of the points that were raised. I heard concerns about the smoke-free generation policy from a number of noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Scriven, Lord Brady, Lord Naseby, Lord Sharpe, Lord Teverson and Lord Moylan. However, the reality is that smoking leads to significant harm. A clear majority of smokers regret ever having started. My noble friend Lord Browne spoke about this, as did the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, who recounted his own personal experience. Many people struggle to give up due to the addictive nature of nicotine.
I am grateful to a number of noble Lords for sharing their personal experiences, which brought colour and a human touch to our debate. These included the noble Lords, Lord Jopling and Lord Rennard, my noble friends Lady Rafferty, Lady Ramsey and Lord Griffiths, and the noble Baroness, Lady Morgan.
However, let us remember that the harms of smoking extend beyond the individual. They impact on non-smokers, especially children and pregnant women, through second-hand smoke. This policy will be the most significant public health measure in a generation. It will build on the previous steps I spoke of, such as the 2007 indoor smoking ban, with the goal of safe- guarding the health of future generations from preventable and serious harm. That is why we are bringing the Bill forward.
The noble Baroness, Lady Fox, decried the Bill on a number of levels, including—she must forgive me if I am wrong on this—that it is Tory legislation. Actually, this is a Bill on which we are agreed across the House and across parties. Of course there are questions, but a wise Government and wise Opposition Benches acknowledge good when they see it. That is where we are today.
A number of noble Lords suggested raising the age of sale to a particular age—for example, 21 or 25—as a potential way to address smoking. As the noble Lord, Lord Bourne, put so well, that would not stop young people starting to smoke. The whole point is that, once you have started to smoke, the challenge of giving up is tremendous, because it is an addiction. Introducing a particular age could have a positive impact but it will not fully achieve the ambition of a smoke-free UK. Our goal is to go further, to break the cycle of addiction. We want to drive smoking rates down to 0%. That is why we have suggested a smoke-free generation.
On the practicalities, implementation is absolutely key. On ID checks, the majority of retailers sell tobacco and vapes responsibly—I acknowledge that. They follow the recommended practice and regularly ask for ID from customers. The Bill provides powers to specify in regulations the steps that may be taken to verify a customer’s age, to provide clarity and to support retailers. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, spoke to this point. We are exploring how we can enhance age verification with digital verification services, providing an opportunity to securely verify age, both in person and online.
With regard to the products in scope, the Bill captures all tobacco products, as tobacco is uniquely harmful. There are around five times more people smoking non-cigarette tobacco, such as cigars, than a decade ago, and the greatest increase is among young adults. To the noble Earl, Lord Howe, and the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, I would say that this is why the Bill, importantly, captures all tobacco products and must not be watered down to exclude certain products.
The noble Earl, Lord Lindsay, and the noble Lords, Lord Strathcarron, Lord Scriven and Lord Brady, referred to other products outside of this range. I again call upon the words of the Chief Medical Officer: there is no safe level of tobacco consumption. That is what sets it apart from other products that we might feel are harmful. There is no safe level, not even a little bit; that is the key. Therefore, cigars, shisha and heated tobacco are all in scope. To the point raised earlier about heated tobacco, there is evidence from laboratory studies of its toxicity, and there are, as noble Lords have spoken of, less harmful tobacco-free products to support people to quit, rather than heated tobacco.
A number of noble Lords raised points about the growth in illicit sales. The noble Lords, Lord Dodds, Lord Blencathra, Lord Naseby, Lord Scriven, Lord Howard and Lord Murray, the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and the noble Earl, Lord Leicester, were concerned that the Bill’s ambitions could be undermined in this respect. As other noble Lords have said, history shows that when we have introduced targeted tobacco control measures, the size of the illicit market has not increased. As the noble Lord, Lord Bichard, told the House, it has in fact continued to fall. When the age of sale increased from 16 to 18, the number of illicit cigarettes consumed fell by 25%.
On the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, the Government are cracking down on the demand for illicit trade, as well as the supply, with the joint strategy with HMRC and Border Force backed up by over £100 million of new funding over five years.
I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bichard, for articulating support for those who work in trading standards as well as acknowledging their worth, and I share his views on that. As these were points raised by the noble Lords, Lord Moylan and Lord Udny-Lister, it might be helpful to reiterate that we have announced £10 million of new funding in 2025-26 for trading standards to boost the workforce and tackle the illicit and underage sale of tobacco and vapes.
A number of questions were raised about whether driving down the smoking of tobacco could lead to an increase in the smoking of cannabis. As the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, accurately said, the Bill is not banning the smoking of anything—it is in reference only to tobacco and vapes. I also ought to say that we are not aware of any link between the rates of smoking cannabis and the rates of smoking tobacco. I know that noble Lords are more than aware that cannabis is, of course, illegal.
On the matter of abuse against retail staff, raised by my noble friend Lady Carberry, we are working closely with retailers and will utilise the long lead-in time to best support them in preparing for and implementing these changes. That includes rolling out information campaigns for both the public and retail workers. We will not stand for violence and abuse against shop workers; everyone has the right to feel safe. To protect hard-working and dedicated staff who work in stores, this Government will introduce a new offence of assaulting a retail worker.
On the issue of smoke-free places, in England we intend to consult on extending smoke-free outdoor places to outside schools, children’s playgrounds and hospitals, but not—I say to my noble friend Lord Faulkner —to outdoor hospitality settings or wider open spaces such as beaches. This is because—and it might be helpful to the noble Baroness, Lady Bray, as an assurance—we judge that this adequately balances a range of priorities by protecting the most vulnerable while ensuring that businesses are not financially impacted.
There was a lot of discussion about the rationale for the broad powers, including within the Bill. Noble Lords are right to point to the high number of regulation-making powers that the Bill takes. I have no doubt that noble Lords have enjoyed or will enjoy scrutinising the 96-page delegated powers memorandum, which sets out in full the detail of the rationale for each and every one of the powers. I recommend it as good reading. Concerns were particularly raised by the noble Earl, Lord Howe, the noble Lord, Lord Blencathra, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Hoey and Lady Meyer. I assure noble Lords that each of these powers has been carefully considered and aims to ensure that the Bill establishes a clear regulatory regime for tobacco, vaping and nicotine products, and that we have worked very closely with the Attorney-General’s Office to get it in the right place.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, spoke to, given the need to adapt to emerging scientific understanding and to market innovations, it is crucial that the details of the regime are set out in regulations, to ensure sufficient flexibility. In addition, most of the regulations require significant technical detail, which is more appropriate for secondary legislation.
As some noble Lords referred to, the Bill is UK-wide, so certain powers are being repeated for each part of the UK. Equally, the Bill restates or amends a number of existing powers from across tobacco control legislation, to bring it together in one place. That will help to make legislation more useful and accessible.
I can assure noble Lords that the Bill provides a statutory requirement to consult on regulations, and we are working constructively with retail associations and the Local Government Association to help shape the early design of the scheme. The noble Lord, Lord Mott, was right to say that we should support responsible retailers, who are the majority and who want to do the right thing. They do not want to be undermined by those who are not being responsible. I put that to the noble Lord, Lord Udny-Lister, who was concerned about impact.
On the matter of balance in respect of vapes, there was a useful debate, both in the Chamber and at a meeting I held with the Opposition Front Bench, about the matter of flavours. To avoid unintended consequences on adult smoking rates, the scope of restrictions will be carefully considered and consulted on. The noble Earl, Lord Howe, raised the issue of exemptions from the advertising ban for public health purposes. We are clear that healthcare providers can continue to provide advice about vaping as a smoking cessation tool. For example, pharmacists could display public health campaign messaging or provide advice to customers about vaping as a smoking cessation tool. I wish to say to my noble friends Lady Mattinson and Lord Hanworth, as well as the noble Earl, Lord Russell, that we will keep emerging evidence under review, and have already commissioned a 10-year study to investigate the long-term effects of vaping on the health of 100,000 young people, which I hope will be helpful.
On the matter of filters and the environment, I understand and am sympathetic to the concerns raised by noble Lords, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Grey-Thompson and Lady Bennett. The environmental harm of items with tobacco butts is evident, as it is the most littered item in the UK. Ultimately, the best way to tackle this littering is through reducing smoking rates, but we are where we are. Local authorities already have powers to tackle littering, including through the ability to issue fixed penalty notices of up to £500. We are working closely with Defra to take a systematic approach to what is indeed something of a blight.
On the matter of age and the concerns, including twins born either side of midnight, should such a thing ever happen, I remind noble Lords that other policies already do this, such as universal credit increases, NHS screening programmes and access to vaccines.
On the “polluter pays” levy, raised by the noble Lords, Lord Crisp and Lord Young of Cookham, my noble friend Lord Faulkner and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, the Government’s present preference is, as I think noble Lords are aware, to continue with a proven and effective method of dealing with tobacco products through increases in tobacco duties, to incentivise those who currently smoke to quit, and to generate finances that can be put back into public services.
I am most grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Bethell, for his support for the Bill and appreciate the intentions behind his suggestion to be smoke-free by 2040.
On the points about the Windsor Framework, I have heard the concerns about the application of smoke-free generation policy in Northern Ireland from the noble Lords, Lord Dodds and Lord Weir, the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, and my noble friend Lady Ritchie. I have met the Northern Ireland Health Minister, and we continue to work well with his office. I assure noble Lords that we are content that the measures intended to apply to Northern Ireland are consistent with the obligations in the Windsor Framework.
In closing, I am most grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. This is a landmark Bill, and it will be the most significant public health intervention in a generation, so I beg to move.