UK-Scottish Government Relations

Question

11:27:00

Asked by

To ask His Majesty’s Government what meetings have taken place between UK Government Ministers and Scottish Government Ministers in the past month and what matters were discussed.

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name, and in doing so I welcome my noble friend, who was born in Edinburgh and who is answering for the first time on behalf of the Government a Question on Scotland.

I thank my noble friend for his generous comments—let us hope I live up to them. The Government are committed to resetting relationships with the Scottish Government. Ministers across departments have been meeting to discuss a broad range of issues with their counterparts from the Scottish Government, and ministerial engagement is underpinned by regular engagement at official level. Intergovernmental relations are led from the top by the Prime Minister, who chaired the inaugural Council of the Nations and Regions on 11 October. The council will reconvene in the spring.

My Lords, that is a helpful Answer. However, the Minister knows that while justice is devolved, there is great concern here in the rest of the United Kingdom about the fact that Operation Branchform, which is dealing with serious matters of fraud, embezzlement and signature-copying, has now taken over three years. It is in no one’s interest that it should drag on and on. So, if Police Scotland asks us to provide specialist help from the National Crime Agency and the Serious Fraud Office, can we give it that help?

I thank my noble friend for his question. I am of course aware of the Police Scotland investigation into the Scottish National Party. However, it would not be appropriate for me to comment on an investigation that is ongoing, and operational decisions are a matter for Police Scotland. Of course, if it was to make such requests, I am sure that every agency would wish to assist.

I welcome the noble Baroness to Questions. Can she please tell the House when Sue Gray will start work in her new role as envoy to the regions and nations?

We are delighted that the Council of the Nations and Regions is now up and running and will be meeting again in the spring. Sue Gray has been appointed as the envoy but obviously, she had a busy two years while getting ready for ensuring that the Labour Party won the general election, so she is taking a holiday. She will be appointed in due course, and I will report to the House.

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the Scottish Government set up a review by the former chief executive of the Scottish Law Commission to look into the dual role of the Lord Advocate, first, as the head of the prosecution service in Scotland, and, secondly, as an adviser to the Scottish Government? If the review suggests that there should be a division of these responsibilities, which would require legislation in this Parliament, would His Majesty’s Government be willing to facilitate that, should the Scottish Parliament ask?

We look forward to the outcome of the review and will respond in due course, in the usual manner.

Was my noble friend the Minister excited and interested to learn that the SNP Scottish Government have, after considerable effort and research, managed to identify and officially classify 24 different genders? Do His Majesty’s Government have any intention of replicating that research?

My Lords, I am always interested in what the SNP is doing in Scotland. At this point, I am not aware of any efforts by the UK Government to repeat that research.

My Lords, in the debate on the humble Address, I asked the Minister about the future of the Prime Minister/First Ministers council in relation to the setting up of the new Council of the Nations and Regions. I did not receive a satisfactory answer. In opposition, the now Government’s position was that both councils would continue to exist. Is that still their position? When will the next meeting of the Prime Minister/First Ministers council take place?

The new Prime Minister met with the Scottish First Minister the first weekend after the general election. It was the Prime Minister’s first official meeting. We also have the Council of the Nations and Regions, which met only this month; it is an extraordinary thing and demonstrates devolution in action. On future engagement, with the greatest of respect, I find it extraordinary that, although those meetings were agreed to in 2022, they did not happen under the previous Government in 2023, nor in the first six months of 2024. We are reviewing when that meeting will happen next but, for the moment, the Council of the Nations and Regions and the intergovernmental relations body will continue in parallel.

My Lords, the previous Government set up the system of quarterly reports on intergovernmental relations. The last of those reports was delivered in December last year, which is quite a lot more than a quarter ago. Is this system still in operation and if so, has it reverted to the Cabinet Office? It had moved from the Cabinet Office to what was then the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities.

We are re-establishing the scheme, and data is currently being compiled. I will have to get back to the noble Earl on whether it has reverted to the Cabinet Office.

My Lords, quite a few intergovernmental units have been set up recently. The Minister will of course be aware of the east-west council, which was set up under the Safeguarding the Union Command Paper earlier this year. One of those meetings has taken place. Do the Government value the east-west council and the bringing together of the devolved Administrations with Westminster? If so, how frequently will the east-west council meet?

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. She will be aware that we have a future Question on Safeguarding the Union, and that is when we will give a formal update. Of course we celebrate bringing together all the people who run the nations and regions of the United Kingdom—that is why the Council of the Nations and Regions was convened. It held its first meeting in Scotland, and the First Minister and Deputy First Minister of Northern Ireland were present, as were the mayors and those who lead combined authorities. It is devolution in action, with everyone responsible for delivering for the people of the United Kingdom coming together to make sure that it works. I will get back to the noble Baroness about when the next meeting of the east-west council will follow.

My Lords, a number of detailed government Bills with implications for people and citizens across the UK are being considered by both Houses at present. I am thinking of measures such as the water Bill, bearing in mind that waterways adjoin the different nations of the UK, such as the River Tweed, which adjoins Northumberland and Scotland. Can the Minister assure me that detailed measures concerning the practical decisions we need to take, in conjunction with the devolved authorities, are being considered in an orderly and detailed way?

I thank the noble Baroness for her question. Ensuring that consideration is given to the wider impact of legislation in this House and in the other place is fundamental. That is why Ministers have met their Scottish counterparts more than 20 times in the past month to discuss each part of our legislative agenda.

My Lords, one of the many successes of the Scotland Office under the previous Government was building deep relationships with the 32 local authorities in Scotland. Of course, that was greatly assisted by £3 billion of Treasury funding, whether it was the community ownership fund, the levelling up fund, the city deals or the towns fund. We know that it was successful because the 32 local authorities told me personally that they were having better interactions with the UK Government than they did with the Scottish Government, and that includes SNP-led councils. My friends in Argyll and Bute tell me they are concerned that the £70 million rural growth fund, which is a commitment, is on hold pending the upcoming Budget. Can the Minister confirm that this Government are committed to strengthening the union and to continuing funding, direct from the UK Treasury, the 32 local authorities in Scotland?

This Government are of course committed to doing everything we can to secure the union. The Budget is only six days away, so the noble Lord will have to wait for an update on expenditure from the Chancellor of the Exchequer.

My Lords, the position of the Secretary of State for Scotland was introduced more than 100 years before the Scottish Parliament was established, and it has not been sufficiently considered since then. Are there any plans to review the role?

No, there are not.

My Lords, earlier on, the Minister may have misspoken in her answer to my noble friend Lord Sandhurst’s question. She said that Sue Gray had been appointed as an envoy and would be appointed as an envoy. Can the Minister confirm which is the case, and whether Sue Gray will be at the next meeting of the Council of the Nations and Regions?

I am sorry if I misled the House; that was not my intention. Sue Gray has been appointed. I am not sure of her start date—I am not in charge of HR for the Government.

My Lords, is this a good moment to offer our thanks to and support for Sir Chris Hoy, a great Scotsman who has worn the union jack around his shoulders in so many places around the world for so many years? He has inspired an entire generation of young people, and he has brought joy to elderly people in their chairs—even on these red Benches. He now faces a new challenge, which he is doing with extraordinary courage. May we express our thanks for his inspiration, and hope that the inspiration and joy he has brought us will be returned to him in his way ahead?

My father has recently completed cancer treatment, and I am in awe of those who are experiencing exactly what Chris Hoy is experiencing. He is an inspiration, as members of the Royal Family have been in recent days, for everybody who faces an incredible uphill battle. I send my thoughts and prayers to him and his family at this very difficult time.